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Author	Topic: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
warrior333 Posts: 100 Registered: Jun '08	Date Posted: 2/25 7:48am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	Totaly forgot to say: one of the things that was once natural to MK was controversy. The extreme violence got people talk about it and the games got publicity. Why not do something like that again? For example make the violence in the game very gruesome and over-the-top, but still believable? Do you have the guts to risk?
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Black_Shroud Posts: 1,720 Registered: Nov '08	Date Posted: 2/25 12:15pm Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	UPDATE: /Overall/ - Animalities and brutalities, More complex commands for more powerful moves (player skill check), common/techno looking characters should be in minority /Storyline twists/ - Hotaru /Graphics/ - about loading screens /Sound/ - characters cannot scream after death, Announcer should say "Fight" and not "Foich" /Modes/ - Time Attack mode added, Movelists only in Practice /Misc Character Notes/(section redone) - Cyrax spinkicks are out of place, Darrius costume/looks rant, Nighwolf: no lightning and no tae kwon do but add druid powers and wolf morph, Elaborated on Noob Saibot: scythe instead of trollhammer, Shang Tsung morph into opponent as well but no Shinnok-like morphs, Not added (needs to be discussed) -Grappling -Deadly Alliance mode as explained by Nevermore. -Jax teaming up with Tekunin - needs more voices for it or against it. (taken on February 25, 2009) ___________________________________________________________________ ======= Overall\|===================================================== ======= # Game must be very heavily tested, if possibly with several public location tests. And dear god, no glitches that delete all your data. # at least 2 Fatalities, and 1 Hara-Kiri per character. Possilby Weapon Fatalities. But no fatality swapping (like Sub-Zero taking out skeleton in MKDA, and Scorpion making Spine Rip in MKD), and no joke fatalities (like Bo Rai Cho fartality, Quan Chi's neck stretch, etc) Once fatality can be classic one (i.e. Scorpion's Toasty, Kano's Heart Rip, Liu Kang's Dragon etc) # More fatality ideas: you can look MKSM fatalities, those were pretty good, and also look into Multalities because those can be made Fatalites in MK9 as well. # Animalities and Brutalities: Those can come into play when there is a lack of fatality ideas for character (like you probably had in MKA). If character has no decent fatalities, you can give him 1 Animality and 1 Brutality and it will be better than MKA. To say, the whole combo counter on KAF looked like it was som Brutality-type combo, and many people called KAF the Brutality instead. I think its not possible to give Animality to everyone because you will simply run out of animals (all post-MK3 animalities in UMK3/MKT looked pretty silly compared to MK3 ones) # Look into aspect of adding friendships (first it adds more variety, second it involves some gameplay limitation, which makes battle more challenging, and then when you do friendship it becomes humiliating to opponent who realises you limited yourself and still won). Dont make those too silly, but if you can make them fun and reflecting character's persona (like Sub-Zero's Snowman) then make them. # No KAF (especially if its one and the same for all characters) # No KAK mode, or if you decide to make one, make it balanced. Look like wrestling games manage it - you have limited number of points for character, good moves cost alot, bad moves dont. Therefore (unlike MKA) you cant insert 100% of best attacks (best priority, most damaging, juggling etc) which keeps KAK balanced. # Minimum shared moves between characters (and especially dont make it like MKA where like every character had fireball+teleport). Make movesets unique. Chameleon, Khameleon, Shujinko of course can share moves because thats idea behind the characters. # Deathtraps can be interchanged for stage fatalities. Basically, keep deathtraps the same BUT make them useable on last round ONLY. That will look way more realistic then character dying in first round in deathtrap, then being alive again in the second; and its easy to implement. Also only really strong attacks (like Shaolin Fist forward+triangle) should send opponent there. # Costume select feature: First you select character, then you select costume (you can switch left-right between costumes to see them both) # Insert some super-hidden secrets, like Reptile was in MK1. Those things were MK's trademark for quite some time. # Characters should express more personality. Personality points: 1) Voices and quotes (Scorpion's "Get over here", Jax's "Thats what Im talking about" (wasnt cool though), Liu Kang's turkey screams etc). The quotes shouldnt be used in sets of generic sounds for normal attacks; instead use them only in characters' special moves, intro/get-up between rounds/win poses. 2) Intro poses. Those are done at beginning of match. MK acquired something similar which is get-up pose of loser in between rounds, which starts from laying down position. Intro pose coul be made cooler, like Smoke appearing from smoke, Rain from water portal, Reptile from invisible mode, Raiden from lighting strucking the ground, Ermac from sky via telekinetic levitation, some characters just doing short katas. Emphazise character's special power in those 3) Get-up poses of loser in between rounds (explained above). Those based on character's power looked very cool. 4) Win poses. First they should be more character-oriented and cool to look at (examples: MKD Scorpion's spear win pose, MKD Raiden electric blasts win pose, MKSM Sub-Zero's frozen ground win pose). They shouldnt be super generic like those adopted from MKDA (examples: MKD Hotaru win pose, MKD Darrius win pose, MKD Kenshi win pose, etc). Win poses from classic games are welcome too. My idea is: to give character several win poses (2 or 3), from least cool to most cool (character power-based), and he gets cooler win pose if he wins with more life left. If he wins low at life, he can do more generic one. # Commands for powerful special moves should require more skill than normal ones (Just like you made Dairou's Tombstone Drop command a bit more complex) \|Direction of atmosphere of game\| -Make it good like: 1) Eastern tournament (MK1); 2)Dangerous, ancient foreign realm (MK2, MKDA); 3)Alot of different locations in different realms (MK4, MKD) -DONT Make it like: 1) Common big city on Earth (MK3, UMK3) 2) Mixed bag of everything that doesnt holds up (MKT, MKA, MKvsDC) -Dispose of silly humor like farting and throwing up Bo Rai Cho, and his fartality. Drunken master can look like drunken master even with constant farting, just go look "Drunken master" movie. I admit, there IS humor of good quality in MK games, but dispose of silly one. -Modern/Techno characters (Cyborgs,Stryker,Darrius,Jax,Sonya,maybe Cage,anyone very common or very sci-fi looking) should be in minority, to show overall ancient eastern theme of Mortal Kombat. ========= Storyline===================================================== ========= # MKA was a dream-match game period... as a rule no one makes dream-match games canon because its almost impossible and screws storyline very badly. # => Retcon everything in MKA storyline that you like, or you can just ignore it altogether, and in MK9 you can explain "after MKD happened this, this and this, and here we are now in MK9". # If you need to dispose of characters, there is no need to kill them. Just dont mention them in MK9, or say they disappeared and no one knows their whereabouts. You can also devise a sub-plot where some characters were sucked in another, unknown dimension after MKA, and were lost for MK universe for several games, then, to say, Johnny Cage reappears in MK11 together with some other such characters, having lived for 2 years in different realm, having changed his personality a bit (always better than quick "Johnny Cage => Enlightened" MKA thing in his ending) # Characters that can be disposed off are all those extra 'baggage' characters that dont have perspective for their storylines, basically their storyline used itself up and cannot progress. On other hand, the characters that must stay are those which storyline basically just begins in present quality and still has big road ahead, especially representatives of new realms (Sareena, Khameleon, Hotaru, Havik), and characters pursuing a goal (Noob Saibot, Reiko, Rain the future rulers of all reality wannabes etc) # If you need new characters, look at various realms/fractions in MK universe that have small number of introduced characters (i.e. Chaosrealm, Tengu clan, Tekunin, Vampires, Cryomancers, Necromancers, Brotherhood of Shadow/Quan Chi's Assassins, priests of Dragon King (Hornbuckle), etc). It would be good move to introduce Hornbuckle as main hero. # New realms to explore can be: Quan Chi's realm (as shown in MKD krypt), Zaterra, Vampire realm. # Chaosrealm and Orderrealm should play a part in story, because they are some of the biggest rival fractions in MK universe. # Make full use of references to MK culture, like various little cameo things, quotes etc. Like in MKSM Reptle says "I do not serve Shang Tsung". MK movies, TV series, comics etc can be used as reference material. \|Ideas for storyline twists\| # After spirit Liu was merged with zombie Liu Kang, make Liu Kang having this darker zombie side he must suppress or he will gone berserk into zombie mode. Its a cool twist for good character, plus it can explain why new main hero is needed, because if Liu Kang will fight alongside good guys he fears he can lose control and turn on them in the process. # Rise to power of more minor characters can be a good theme, like: Rain in Edenia, Reiko in Outworld, then Reptile busy with restoring his race, and dont forget Shang Tsung and Quan Chi. # Explanation of force because of which Raiden became dark, and progression of his storyline. # Shinnok getting more involved in storyline. # Kung Lao and Fujin taking place of Liu Kang and Raiden of past, while Liu Kang and Raiden become characters of another quality. Dont forget Kung Lao's "war" kanji and "we must strike now" badass persona. # Make all Red/Black Dragon storylines more of a side story or dont keep them at all. Epic clash of Kobra and Kira with Mavado and Hsu Hao just doesnt cuts it. I suppose if you want to keep Stryker in game, you can make him a vigilante one-man force hunting on multi-colored Dragon clans. # Scorpion and Sub-Zero must stop being main character, they became very overrated and lost their coolness as a result. Before we had: two very cool ninja assassins, hiding in shadows, stealthy but deadly. Now we have Champion of Elder Gods, and an Ice God. What next, they should became Elder Gods themselves maybe, or should they run a president election? I think they should become stealthy ninja assassins again for good. # Shujinko should follow "repentance for sins" type of storyline, unexpectedly coming to aid good guys in desperate situation. Like, imagine when they are surrounded by mighty enemies, and the suddenly one enemy is frozen, second struck with spear, third with telekineses. Everyone thinks "what??" and then Shujinko attacks other ones with Raiden's torpedo, etc. After ten seconds everybody is knocked out cold and then Shujinko disappears. Having such a cutscene in Konquest mode would be hilarious. As Shujinko is so overpowering, he can be comparable to the Joker in a deck of cards, and so he should be introduced in the storyline where there is need to fight another "Joker Card", something too big/strong like Onaga. # Hotaru is better off using his Order for better deeds, like saving the weak, punish some bandits, villains, oppressors, hunting criminals at least. His obsession with order, order and more order is cool gimmick, but the way you showed him in Konquest makes him truly hated by some fans; while I see Hotaru has great potential in storyline, design and special moves. Try to make his obsession with order kinda more like obsession with justice, i e show that sometimes order can be good. The other cool twists can be him always thinking highly of himself as personification of Order, especially when he is not amongst non-Seidan Guards, but talks with other people in different realms. ======== Graphics\|===================================================== ======== # MKD-Style of promotional renders/ingame renders # 2 costumes per character. One of them should look resemble the one from classic MK games (MK1-2-3-4). No "clone" attires between characters (well MK moved from that recently anyway) # You can try to use face textures of living actors, like wrestling games do, to make characters look more realistic. # Visual damage system like in MKvsDC, but damage should be split for body parts (when opponent's leg takes hit, it should take visible damage instead of wound appearing on his forehead, for example). Also make clothes tatter. # Fatalities should have cinematic camera angles like in MK4 # Realistic dismemberment (like if Reptile does his head eat move, you should be able to see the jagged areas where your flesh and bone have been ruined) # Realistic blood (and especially amount of blood) # Deathtraps must show lava when Blaze is killed, green blood when Reptile, Chameleon, or Khameleon are killed, and black ''blood'' when Cyrax, Sektor, Noob, and Smoke are killed. # FMV character endings if you will have enough time/money left after you do all other stuff mentioned here. # Loading Screens shouldnt reveal entire storyline like in MKvsDC, instead they should focus on characters/arenas like in MKDA/MKD ===== Sound\|===================================================== ===== # Music should be done by Dan Forden (who did music for all MK games except MKA and MKvsDC) # Professional voice actors (the point is, the more unique voices the more unique characters will become) # Characters cannot scream AFTER moment of their death (just for plain reason they are dead already) # Announcer should say "Fight" like in classic MKs, not this new "Foich". Foich sounds bad. ===== Modes\|===================================================== ===== \|Arcade Mode\| # totally randomized ladder (characters/arenas) # all characters and arenas (except boss ones) have same chances of appearing in ladder \|Survival Mode\| # Something like in MKU/MKA, but needs both random characters/arenas, and in the end you fight bosses. \|Time Attack Mode\| \|Vs Mode\| # When you enter it without 2nd player, after selecting your character/arena, you select opponent's character and CPU plays him. Also make CPU vs CPU feature possible. \|Practice Mode\| # An option to fight against the computer on any difficult wanted. # Movelists should be avialable only in practice \|Konquest\| # Explains involvement of characters you encounter, with game's boss/main bad guy. # Like in MKD konquest, multiple realms should be featured, and you can roam them free (unlike linear MKA konquest) # Ability to fight minor henchmen in Konquest like it was in MKSM/MKA can stay; main fights with characters are done in usual MK fighting mode. # No relics # Characters involved in canon storyline of game are featured as part of main quest. Other characters can be there as cameos / side missions, which can be uncanon. # If there are unlockables that are very hard to find, speaking to some NPC'es should give you hints. # You should be able to fight as different characters throughout the Konquest. For example imagine that Hornbuckle is main hero of MK9 Konquest, and he doesnt have ability to turn into other characters like Shujinko. BUT! during Konquest he can surely see other characters fighting each other (like in MKD Ashrah vs Baraka, Ashrah vs Ermac), and at that point you are given control of one of fighting characters. # Also some mini side-missions allowing you to roam the realms as other characters should be good too. Example with Hornbuckle again: He needs to get artifact from temple A, but guards prevent him from entering, so he goes to Lin Kuei and hires Sub-Zero to steal an artifact, then you take control of Sub-Zero, and you should launch a stealth attack at the temple at night, steal artifact and deliver back to Lin Kuei, and there you again take control of Hornbuckle. # Good quality cutscenes # Secret characters/stages should be well hidden in Konquest \|Extra Modes\| # No Motor Kombat. MKD minigames were good, but its better to concentrate on main modes. \|Krypt\| # No cheat codes to unlock everything # Many unlockables, since MK9 is new generation MK, you can insert in its Krypt all stuff from MKDA/MKD/MKA krypts; in same manner you inserted MK1/2/3/4 stuff in MKDA krypt. # Several types of Koins again. Having one koin type like in MKA looks too plain. Basically MKD format of Krypt is the best. \|Online Mode\| # Better netcode # Keep an option to allow/disallow deathtraps in battle (if present) # Make an option to allow/disallow in battle # Make an option toallow/disallow, KAK's in battle (if present) ====== Battle\|===================================================== ====== # Try to use minimum unblockables (Remember Superman's Ground Pound, remember Dairou's sidestep cancelled 15-frame Tombstone Drop, remember MKvsDC Rage unblockable combos.) # Unlimited breakers like MKvsDC (or dispose of all infinites, which is doubtful) # 50% Maximum Damage should work good against infinites as well # Parries # Wake-up game, ability to delay get-up, to stand-up with attack, etc. # No Air Kombat, maximum is MK4 air kombat (you can link 2 attacks and aerial special move) # Special Moves inserted in combos (like in MKvsDC, and previously it was in MK4 to some degree) # Pro Moves (but those need testing, or we will get new Superman Ground Pound) # Different looking stances for characters (preferably signature ones from classic MK games, but for characters like Noob Saibot stance can be taken from MKD/MKA, because there he got unique stance for first time) # Names of fighting styles are unnecessary, however some signature normals from them (in MKDA-MKD-MKA) can be implemented so each character will have visually different (albeit unnamed) fighting style. You can also mix elements of different fighting styles for one character like it was in MKSM. # No Klose Kombat and no Freefall Kombat as long as they are determined by random button-mashing without any skill involved. (If you insert some actual fighting system into them, they can stay. In Freefall Kombat each hit should do damage to character who visually receives it, instead of what we have in MKvsDC) # Each character should have unique throw as well. If throw doesnt sets up the juggle, it should do bigger damage instead, or put space between characters. Throws like Dairou had were basically useless. # About Rage mode: If its present, it should give just damage boost, maybe for longer time than in MKvsDC but without unblockable hits. Also, thinking logically, Rage should be achieved by taking damage or whiffing special move for most time. Giving Rage to character because opponent blocks his hits, which will lead to unblockables in Rage mode is kinda silly, it always puts defending character in unfavourable position. If you want something against block, add some slow unblockable stun hit in the game, which can do no damage but acts like guard breaker. Actually, many people dont like it as it is now. # Weapons should be used for characters they are vital to (Kabal, Kenshi, Kitana, Mileena etc) either as special moves, parts of combo attacks, or fighting stance. Instead of wasting one of 4 buttons to switching between stances like you did for Baraka in MKvsDC, you can make the switching as special move command. ================== Misc. Arena Notes: ================== # Remakes of MK1/MK2 arenas are overall highly requested ===================== Misc. Character Notes\|=============================================== ===================== # Costumes from MKvsDC are good, they probably can be used as alt costumes for MK9. Example: Scorpion 1st costume his Champion outfit (MKD), second costume his normal outfit (MKvsDC) # Characters dont need to have unuseable extra weapons sticked to their costumes. Like Raiden with sword at waist, fighting with long staff at same time; looks stupid. # Cyrax -Cyrax should get his net or he isnt Cyrax. -His Spinkick move seems out of place in his moveset and character theme, better to left it in Darrius' moveset. The very idea that Cyrax is sooo cybernetically enhanced he learned...guess what, to spin on one leg (and then seeing in the next game non-cyborg character doing the same) makes many fans chuckle. # Darrius -Darrius needs better costume. His alt wasnt exactly inspiring, it looked more like 80's thing. His first costume looks way too futuristic, and looks bad while fighting on ancient MK arena. -As Darrius is Jax's replacement, decide who of them has hair, and who is bald (since both variations were present in past). If Darrius goes with baldhead/mustache, then Jax goes with MK2/MK3 look; if Jax goes with baldhead/mustache like in MK:Annihillation movie, Darrius goes with hair on the head. -While Jax goes with look and persona of powerful brute fighter, give Darrius a persona of a smart, tactical and manipulative man, albeit musclebound. -There is a character similar to Darrius in Earth: Final Conflict TV series, called Augur. Although less musclebound, he shares his look, skin tone, glasses (a bit different), persona (albeit not ruthless),technological advance, being part of underground rebel movement against oppressive government, as well as being wanted. -Gauntlets were cool weapon, they need to stay # Ermac -Mystic Float move needs more options, at least the ability to simply cancel it. # Jade -Returning Boomerang should possible (look into Batman's returning batarang for that cause) # Jax -Jax shouldnt look and talk like ghetto gangsta' rapper with medallion on neck that makes him look like 50 cent. Jax is a tough soldier, not a racist stereotype of black man. -Jax looks tougher than ever when he looks like John Parrish (MK2/MK3). -If you want to go with bald Jax, make him look like in MK:Annihilation movie. -Bring Quadruple Slam and Gotcha Grab back again; -Machine Gun: As for big powerful man with huge metal arms relying on tiny short-range machine gun doing low damage, it doesnt looks good. I thought guns are for Strykers. # Johnny Cage -Cage should have his most iconic costume - MK2 costume. Other ones just dont cut it. -Brint back his Nutcracker for the sake of god, without it he starts to fail as character very fast. # Kai -Kai needs his old look/design back. With his MKA design he should go play some Quake 3 because looks like he belongs there better. -Make him better than in MKA where he was bottom tier with worst styles in game, and without any priority for special moves # Kabal -Dispose of his telekinetic headbutt, it looks silly. And dont say Ermac teached him as well. -Give his saw to him, or any other new move. # Kenshi Kenshi's moveset should concentrate more on his sword powers, and his telekinetic moveset (if present) should be completely different from Ermac. As I am hardcore Samurai Shodown fan, I know quite a lot of weapon-based special moves. A simple example is: Kenshi faces to the screen holding sword with two hands behind his head (like before swing), if you hold button he will continue standing and sword will be suddenly encased in blue energy (like his telekinesis), if you hold even longer it will be encased in red energy (as portrayed in renders and endings). When you release button he makes very fast upward slash with energy arc that will damage nearby opponent as well, until dissipates. Level 1 (no energy) makes lesser damage, Level 2 (blue energy) makes more damage, Level 3 (red energy) is also unblockable. Opponent which is close to Kenshi, will block, because he knows that Kenshi can release button at any moment and instantly attack. But if opponent will sit in the block too much, he will eat an unblockable anyway. Kenshi is vulnerable if he is attacked while he havent released button, and also vulnerable if he releases button on Level 1 or 2, and attack gets blocked. Such move, however is very good to use on wakeup. And you should make it tracking, so it cannot be sidestepped; it wont have big range anyway, so opponent theoretically can backdash to evade it if he isnt knocked down or sitting there blocking in first place. # Liu Kang -Liu Kang can have One Inch Punch attack, as he is a homage to Bruce Lee after all # Motaro -As everyone knows, he needs 4 legs! # Nightwolf -He doesnt really needs Lightning From Above, its stolen from Rain, and even Raiden the god of Thunder doesnt have one, whats the reason for Nightwolf to have it? Its not his character theme. He can have some druid powers instead (look moveset of Druid in Diablo II) -He is also the character that clearly needs transforming into animal (wolf) for either animality, fatality, or during fight. People start to forget why he is called NightWOLF, you know? -Giving Tae Kwon Do to Native Americal was like the worst styles idea ever. It looked so out of place... # Noob Saibot -Noob Saibot should get his long-awaited scythe back as his weapon, instead of silly Troll Hammer. Seriously, whats the point of stupid gag on a dark and brutal character? Oh, dark stealthy ninja assassins now like to use Big Sledgehammers? Then how about Baseball Bat? (sarcasm) About the scythe, except that Noob used it in MK4, it fits both his themes: 1)Scythe is symbol of death and a dark creature Noob is; and 2)Ninjas used scythes, sickles and other farm tools as weapons because they werent prohibited to carry; so ninja weapon right here. -He needs his signature Disabler. If you think that Disabler is overpowering, there is a way to balance it: Make a move where Noob summons something like a ball of shadow essence (maybe several summons are possible, each one making ball bigger) - essentially doing this makes him opened for hit, so he should first knock opponent down; then after enough shadow essence is collected, he can fire a Disabler (which effectively wastes shadow essence and he must summon it again). # Raiden -Raiden's alt costume should be without his hat like in last games. His bottom half should be more sleek like in MKD/MKD, because it makes him look more like a fighter; hakama that he had in MKDA alt costume, made him look like a samurai, and together with long staff, hat on his back and electricity it made him look like KAK from different parts. DONT place his (and Kung Lao's) hat on their back, it dumbs their otherwise badass look down, closer to level of ninja turtle. -Raiden's face should look ageless (like he looked in MKDA-MKD-MKA), not an old man with wrinkles like in MKvsDC. He's a god after all. His MKD/MKA alt costume would be one of coolest looking character models in MKD if we could dispose of hat and sword. # Rain -He should get more his classic moves, his moveset in MKA was very weak compared to what he had earlier. # Reptile -He should be in human camouflage like MK2/MKSM 2nd Player outfit, when damaged, morem reptilian features are revealed (example: You knock ninja mask and camouflage "human" skin around eyes, and Reptile's had looks like in MKA/MKSM 1st Player). -If you want to keep with lizard-looking Reptile, it can be his other costume like in MKA. # Reiko -Desperately needs to be his own character with own special moves again like in MK4. Stop making him Shao Kahn wannabe, it isnt funny, its as if he doesnt have a person on his own, and his only thought is "Me = Shao Kahn". -Go with Brotherhood of Shadow storyline, and explain why he and Sareena have same tattoos on face and same black/white hair. -Devastator would be much better weapon to him than a hammer that is Shao Kahn's hammer wannabe. # Sektor -He needs homing missiles again (take them from Lex Luthor in MKvsDC) # Shang Tsung -He can morph!! Think: usually 2 player models are loaded; in MKD versus Noob-Smoke 3 models were loaded total, and Noob-Smoke player could switch models by pressing Change Style button. Now just insert Shang Tsung instead of Noob, before match select randomly other character and load him instead of Smoke, make process of change look like morphing in puff of smoke, and instead of Change Style button use command for Morph special move. Easy. -As well, he can morph into opponent, whose data is already loaded as well -DONT make his morphs MK4-Shinnok-like, because there already are 3 characters from such league (Shujinko, Chameleon, Khameleon) # Shinnok -He needs his MK4 fatalities back, they were easily one of the best in MK. # Shujinko -He needs to have his OWN (different-looking) versions of other character moves. -Giving him both freeze and spear looks kind of silly. Their function is almost the same, plus they are too much signature to dont look stupid when copied. # Sindel -She needs her Levitate move from MK3, and few actions in air (at least aerial fireball) Uninspired characters without much personality, that most people dont want to see (if big need to sacrifice/kill/stop using some characters in MK arises, those can be the ones) = -Kira (illigitemate child of Sonya and Kano) -Kobra (illigitemate child of Sonya and Johhny Cage) -Darrius (alter ego of Jax) -Mokap (joke character) -Hsu Hao (mongolian janitor) -Mavado (Sephiroth wannabe with cloned weapons) -Daegon (Ugh, he certainly doesnt looks like most menacing evil guy in MK history, he has Taven's weapons x2 and Nitara's style, and he is nothing special) -Jarek (alter ego of Kano, and in MKA he had weird costumes, weird storyline, and not suiting fighting style) then to the lesser extent: -Bo Rai Cho (largely because he is misbehaving, instead of his looks/story) -Frost (capitalizing solely on moves borrowed from prev. incarnations of Sub-Zero) -Taven ("Im totally clueless cause I just awakened but here I am an almighty half-god, easily kicking ass of every other MK character, and taking the grand prize") -Li Mei (she's kinda not bad, but not good either because she brings nothing new to the table, much like Taven) questionable characters also are: -Stryker (He is controversial, in MK3 he didnt looked good, then became combo monster when he got his gun shot special in UMK3. In MKA he doesnt looks like himself anymore, he is like some other character (Johnny Cage in different glasses). He has no super powers, or big martial prowess, and overall looks way too common; some people think he doesnt belongs to MK) -All new characters that were only in MKDA and MKA (a game without clear storyline), ended up being not developed enough in terms of storyline. Nitara is good example of that. -----signature----- "The world will look up and shout, “Save Us!” and we’ll look down and whisper "No!" (C) Elder Gods "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread http://forums.midway.com/future_mortal_kombat_game_discussion/b10741/29811760/r29825188/
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vetalfox Posts: 307 Registered: Aug '08	Date Posted: 2/26 3:59am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=- - Date Edited: 2/26 4:28am (5 edits total) Edited By: vetalfox
	"Classic" Fatalities list: ashrah - vodoo doll (mkd's fatality 1) baraka - stab lift (mk2's version) dairou - ribs rip (mkd's fatality 2) ermac - telekinetic explosion goro - 4 parts rip (mku's fatality 2) havik - arm eater (mkd's fatality 2) jade - head rip (mkd fatality 1) jax - arm rip johnny cage - uppercut decapitation kabal - deadly spin (mkd fatality 1) kai - body rip kano - heart rip kenshi - sword attack (mkd fatality 1) kintaro - mk2 shans tsung's third fatality kira - torso rip (mkd's fatality 1) kitana - kiss of death kung lao - hat slice (mk2's version, not mksm's) liu kang - dragon (if animalitys not in) or flame ingulf (if animalities in) mileena - man eater nightwolf - spirit attack nitara - neck bite noob-saibot - spine rip quan chi - leg beat raiden - electrocution reiko - thrust kick reptile - tongue lash scorpion - toasty sektor - flame thrower shao kahn - ground pound (mku's fatality 2) shang tsung - soul steal (mk2's version is best) sheeva - skin rip shinnok - hand clap shujinko - swords scissors (mkd's fatality 1) sindel - scream of death smoke - mkd's smoke fatality sonya - purple haze stryker - explosion device sub-zero - freeze headball (mkd's fatality 1) blaze - ??? chameleon - ??? cyrax - ??? daegon - ??? darrius - ??? drahmin - ??? frost - ??? fujin -??? hotaru - ??? jarek - ??? khameleon - ??? li mei - ??? mavado - ??? meat - ??? moloch - ??? motaro - ??? onaga - ??? rain -??? sareena - ??? tanya - ??? taven - ??? bo rai cho (joke character), mokap(joke character), hsu hao (mr. bison from street fighter) and kobra (virtua fighter style character) must go out forever warrior333 posted: MK started dieing when they decided to put all this modern city, tech crap (robots) imo. MK was all about the mystical Asian feel and they should bring that back. Agreed. About weapons: from where they get weapons? From ass or what? If character use weapon as projectile or for attacks, this weapon need a place on character (on his back, waist or somewhere) and character must get weapon from there. Kitana for example need a few closed fans on waist. Except magic weapons (like Nightwolf's bow). Projectiles or attacks with blade oriented weapons (Baraka's blades, Kitana's fans' Kano's knifes...) must not have neck or head as a target, because in real life this will death -----signature----- Sorry for my english
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Black_Shroud Posts: 1,720 Registered: Nov '08	Date Posted: 2/26 9:20am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=- - Date Edited: 2/26 9:35am (1 edits total) Edited By: Black_Shroud
	I need to discuss this with someone. I got a great lookalike to Mavado (in terms of costume) in certain TV series, but his personality, storyline and fighting style are million times cooler than Mavado's. For instance he uses only kicks when he fights. I can post the videos with him, but hesitant to do so because those TV series are of tokusatsu genre, and as such, while viewing video you can see alot of things that you wont understand, and it all can turn into flame fest in the same way as "anime suck" holywar threads EDIT: Since I did breakdown of Darrius, and also one of Hsu Hao (unposted) and Mavado (needs video), I think I might as well do breakdown of all major characters, noting things that are good enough to stay, and things bad enough which need to be changed -----signature----- "The world will look up and shout, “Save Us!” and we’ll look down and whisper "No!" (C) Elder Gods "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread http://forums.midway.com/future_mortal_kombat_game_discussion/b10741/29811760/r29825188/
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noob-killa Posts: 925 Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 2/26 11:51am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	terrellsubby posted: konorob posted: I definitely think there should NOT be a KAK option. It devalues the actual characters in the game and everybody will just want to use the ones they created. KAK makes for more replay value. They should expand upon this option for more character possibilities. agreed. -----signature----- if any one wants to see the real me Click the link below www.wah_mate.bebo.com WOOP!
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vetalfox Posts: 307 Registered: Aug '08	Date Posted: 2/27 12:41am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	Please pin this topic. -----signature----- Sorry for my english
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Aku_aaron Posts: 36 Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 2/27 1:25am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	hmmm, Im so skeptical about this...the fans are just as dumb as the developers now days..., its just going to be another deception or mk v dc with better graphics an overly cartoony fatalities and blood... and as for fatalities! how about original ones!!! I dont know about any one else but, Im tired of the same old ones just done with new graphics on a new game! I mean yes you can make them based on the same classic principal...but god damn , I can think of great ones for old characters, that I know would rock with 100% certainty! but sadly they will be tonned down an lame, and with todays tech we could do wonders in terms of realism an gore, but every one insists on goin backwards with games,films an music its a pathetic age we live in hahaha
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noob-killa Posts: 925 Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 2/27 1:59am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	agreed -----signature----- if any one wants to see the real me Click the link below www.wah_mate.bebo.com WOOP!
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Black_Shroud Posts: 1,720 Registered: Nov '08	Date Posted: 2/27 2:04am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	My proposal there was 2 fatalities: one classic and one new. Im working on a big update, with important things such as gameplay fixes needed. The idea behind it is to point out easiest and quickest to implement things that theoretically will prevent major part of gameplay unconviniences, and will prolong game's lifeterm greatly -----signature----- "The world will look up and shout, “Save Us!” and we’ll look down and whisper "No!" (C) Elder Gods "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread http://forums.midway.com/future_mortal_kombat_game_discussion/b10741/29811760/r29825188/
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noob-killa Posts: 925 Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 2/27 2:13am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	thats true i want new and old fatalities -----signature----- if any one wants to see the real me Click the link below www.wah_mate.bebo.com WOOP!
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Black_Shroud Posts: 1,720 Registered: Nov '08	Date Posted: 2/27 5:19am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=- - Date Edited: 2/27 6:08am (2 edits total) Edited By: Black_Shroud
	UPDATE: /Overall/ - pointed that fatalities can combine ideas from several classic ones into one fatality which was done before, /Ideas for storyline twists/ - Shao Kahn idea /Graphics/ - all about weapons /Sound/ - MK:The Movie-styled music is needed /Modes/ - 2-on-2 mode, Tag Team mode if possible /Gameplay/ - fast transition from high to low block, if there are 3 stances add ability to switch them in both directions, make use of MKDA style-specific moves, /Individual Arena Notes/ - deathtraps in final round only /Individual Character Notes/ - Cage needs black glasses, Cyrax flashing lights rant, Hsu Hao section added (character breakdown), Kira & Kobra section added (design info), Reptile fatality info, Scorpion section added (fatalities and costume info), Smoke section added (costume info), Sub-Zero section added (fatality info) Not added (needs to be discussed) -Mavado section (Im discussing new character ideas for him in another thread) -Quick and easy to implement gameplay fixes (like Maximum Damage in MK4) -Grappling -Deadly Alliance mode as explained by Nevermore. -Jax teaming up with Tekunin - needs more voices for it or against it. (taken on February 27, 2009) ___________________________________________________________________ TABLE OF CONTENTS: (Added for convenience, use CTRL+F with \|XA#\| to navigate to what you want faster) \|XA1\| - Overall \|XA1.1\| - Direction of atmoshpere of game \|XA1.2\| - "Ultimate" versions of games \|XA2\| - Storyline \|XA2.1\| - Ideas for storyline twists \|XA3\| - Graphics \|XA4\| - Sound \|XA5\| - Modes \|XA5\| - Gameplay \|XA6\| - Individual Arena Notes \|XA7\| - Individual Character Notes ======= Overall\|==================================================\|XA1\| ======= # Game must be very heavily tested, if possibly with several public location tests. And dear god, no glitches that delete all your data. # at least 2 Fatalities, and 1 Hara-Kiri per character. Possilby Weapon Fatalities. But no fatality swapping (like Sub-Zero taking out skeleton in MKDA, and Scorpion making Spine Rip in MKD), and no joke fatalities (like Bo Rai Cho fartality, Quan Chi's neck stretch, etc) Once fatality can be classic one (i.e. Scorpion's Toasty, Kano's Heart Rip, Liu Kang's Dragon etc) or classic one with a twist (Like Sub-Zero's MKD fatality combined all his MK1-MK2 fatalities into one; Reptile's MKDA fatality combined both his UMK3 fatalities into one, etc) # More fatality ideas: you can look MKSM fatalities, those were pretty good, and also look into Multalities because those can be made Fatalites in MK9 as well. # Animalities and Brutalities: Those can come into play when there is a lack of fatality ideas for character (like you probably had in MKA). If character has no decent fatalities, you can give him 1 Animality and 1 Brutality and it will be better than MKA. To say, the whole combo counter on KAF looked like it was som Brutality-type combo, and many people called KAF the Brutality instead. I think its not possible to give Animality to everyone because you will simply run out of animals (all post-MK3 animalities in UMK3/MKT looked pretty silly compared to MK3 ones) # Look into aspect of adding friendships (first it adds more variety, second it involves some gameplay limitation, which makes battle more challenging, and then when you do friendship it becomes humiliating to opponent who realises you limited yourself and still won). Dont make those too silly, but if you can make them fun and reflecting character's persona (like Sub-Zero's Snowman) then make them. # No KAF (especially if its one and the same for all characters) # No KAK mode, or if you decide to make one, make it balanced. Look like wrestling games manage it - you have limited number of points for character, good moves cost alot, bad moves dont. Therefore (unlike MKA) you cant insert 100% of best attacks (best priority, most damaging, juggling etc) which keeps KAK balanced. # Minimum shared moves between characters (and especially dont make it like MKA where like every character had fireball+teleport). Make movesets unique. Chameleon, Khameleon, Shujinko of course can share moves because thats idea behind the characters. # Deathtraps can be interchanged for stage fatalities. Basically, keep deathtraps the same BUT make them useable on last round ONLY. That will look way more realistic then character dying in first round in deathtrap, then being alive again in the second; and its easy to implement. Also only really strong attacks (like Shaolin Fist forward+triangle) should send opponent there. # Costume select feature: First you select character, then you select costume (you can switch left-right between costumes to see them both) # Insert some super-hidden secrets, like Reptile was in MK1. Those things were MK's trademark for quite some time. # Characters should express more personality. Personality points: 1) Voices and quotes (Scorpion's "Get over here", Jax's "Thats what Im talking about" (wasnt cool though), Liu Kang's turkey screams etc). The quotes shouldnt be used in sets of generic sounds for normal attacks; instead use them only in characters' special moves, intro/get-up between rounds/win poses. 2) Intro poses. Those are done at beginning of match. MK acquired something similar which is get-up pose of loser in between rounds, which starts from laying down position. Intro pose coul be made cooler, like Smoke appearing from smoke, Rain from water portal, Reptile from invisible mode, Raiden from lighting strucking the ground, Ermac from sky via telekinetic levitation, some characters just doing short katas. Emphazise character's special power in those 3) Get-up poses of loser in between rounds (explained above). Those based on character's power looked very cool. 4) Win poses. First they should be more character-oriented and cool to look at (examples: MKD Scorpion's spear win pose, MKD Raiden electric blasts win pose, MKSM Sub-Zero's frozen ground win pose). They shouldnt be super generic like those adopted from MKDA (examples: MKD Hotaru win pose, MKD Darrius win pose, MKD Kenshi win pose, etc). Win poses from classic games are welcome too. My idea is: to give character several win poses (2 or 3), from least cool to most cool (character power-based), and he gets cooler win pose if he wins with more life left. If he wins low at life, he can do more generic one. # Commands for powerful special moves should require more skill than normal ones (Just like you made Dairou's Tombstone Drop command a bit more complex) \|Direction of atmosphere of game\|------------------------\|XA1.1\| -Make it good like: 1) Eastern tournament (MK1); 2)Dangerous, ancient foreign realm (MK2, MKDA); 3)Alot of different locations in different realms (MK4, MKD) -DONT Make it like: 1) Common big city on Earth (MK3, UMK3) 2) Mixed bag of everything that doesnt holds up (MKT, MKA, MKvsDC) -Dispose of silly humor like farting and throwing up Bo Rai Cho, and his fartality. Drunken master can look like drunken master even with constant farting, just go look "Drunken master" movie. I admit, there IS humor of good quality in MK games, but dispose of silly one. -Modern/Techno characters (Cyborgs,Stryker,Darrius,Jax,Sonya,maybe Cage,anyone very common or very sci-fi looking) should be in minority, to show overall ancient eastern theme of Mortal Kombat. \|"Ultimate" versions of games\|---------------------------\|XA1.2\| Release "Ultimate" versions of games instead of DLC. Example: MK9 has X characters and Y arenas. After people played it, usually in first month some gameplay unconviniences are discovered. Then you make UMK9 with X+5 characters and Y+4 arenas, and with unconviniences removed. Pros: 1)While you work on it as "new" game, you already have needed basis/engine from MK9 2)Polishing existing engine is always more productive than making new one from scratch; I mean who knows what problems might arise with yet another new engine. 3)You still can change some things in game without fear on some uncompatibility (which would be the case if you released just a patch for MK9) 4)You will need to release it at least 1 year after MK9 to assure all people who wanted to play initial MK9 will buy it, instead of missing it waiting for UMK9. This gives you alot more time for implementing all the things you wanted to implement back in MK9, but havent because of deadline/time limit. 5)Since those count as different games, UMK9 vs MK9 online play wont be possible; and because "gameplay unconviniences" of MK9 will be removed in UMK9, everyone will buy UMK9. 6)You will have time to hear what extra characters/arenas players want to see in UMK9 after they played MK9. As a rule of thumb, fan favourites should be included, which will make the game desired by many. Canon storyline for the added characters isnt needed, in fact just their presence is enough. 7)While developing the UMK9 you can create extra content required for making PSP version of MK9 as well. 7)While developing the UMK9 you can create extra content required for making PSP version of MK9 as well. 8)Part of fans doesnt likes DLC's idea viewed in aspect of paying second time for the game already bought, but with Ultimate version of game that wont be the case. When Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 was released, everybody bought it, and no one wanted to return to original MK3, because there was absolutely no merit to do so. 9)It is better than making a patch for MK9 judging from point money are needed to make the patch, which then should be distributed for free. "Ultimate" version of game would be counted more of a separate game, and as such it would be sold as opposed to patch ========= Storyline\|==================================================\|XA2\| ========= # MKA was a dream-match game period... as a rule no one makes dream-match games canon because its almost impossible and screws storyline very badly. # => Retcon everything in MKA storyline that you like, or you can just ignore it altogether, and in MK9 you can explain "after MKD happened this, this and this, and here we are now in MK9". # If you need to dispose of characters, there is no need to kill them. Just dont mention them in MK9, or say they disappeared and no one knows their whereabouts. You can also devise a sub-plot where some characters were sucked in another, unknown dimension after MKA, and were lost for MK universe for several games, then, to say, Johnny Cage reappears in MK11 together with some other such characters, having lived for 2 years in different realm, having changed his personality a bit (always better than quick "Johnny Cage => Enlightened" MKA thing in his ending) # Characters that can be disposed off are all those extra 'baggage' characters that dont have perspective for their storylines, basically their storyline used itself up and cannot progress. On other hand, the characters that must stay are those which storyline basically just begins in present quality and still has big road ahead, especially representatives of new realms (Sareena, Khameleon, Hotaru, Havik), and characters pursuing a goal (Noob Saibot, Reiko, Rain the future rulers of all reality wannabes etc) # If you need new characters, look at various realms/fractions in MK universe that have small number of introduced characters (i.e. Chaosrealm, Tengu clan, Tekunin, Vampires, Cryomancers, Necromancers, Brotherhood of Shadow/Quan Chi's Assassins, priests of Dragon King (Hornbuckle), etc). It would be good move to introduce Hornbuckle as main hero. # New realms to explore can be: Quan Chi's realm (as shown in MKD krypt), Zaterra, Vampire realm. # Chaosrealm and Orderrealm should play a part in story, because they are some of the biggest rival fractions in MK universe. # Make full use of references to MK culture, like various little cameo things, quotes etc. Like in MKSM Reptle says "I do not serve Shang Tsung". MK movies, TV series, comics etc can be used as reference material. \|Ideas for storyline twists\|---------------------------\|XA2.1\| # After spirit Liu was merged with zombie Liu Kang, make Liu Kang having this darker zombie side he must suppress or he will gone berserk into zombie mode. Its a cool twist for good character, plus it can explain why new main hero is needed, because if Liu Kang will fight alongside good guys he fears he can lose control and turn on them in the process. # Rise to power of more minor characters can be a good theme, like: Rain in Edenia, Reiko in Outworld, then Reptile busy with restoring his race, and dont forget Shang Tsung and Quan Chi. # Explanation of force because of which Raiden became dark, and progression of his storyline. # Shinnok getting more involved in storyline. # Kung Lao and Fujin taking place of Liu Kang and Raiden of past, while Liu Kang and Raiden become characters of another quality. Dont forget Kung Lao's "war" kanji and "we must strike now" badass persona. # Make all Red/Black Dragon storylines more of a side story or dont keep them at all. Epic clash of Kobra and Kira with Mavado and Hsu Hao just doesnt cuts it. I suppose if you want to keep Stryker in game, you can make him a vigilante one-man force hunting on multi-colored Dragon clans. # Scorpion and Sub-Zero must stop being main character, they became very overrated and lost their coolness as a result. Before we had: two very cool ninja assassins, hiding in shadows, stealthy but deadly. Now we have Champion of Elder Gods, and an Ice God. What next, they should became Elder Gods themselves maybe, or should they run a president election? I think they should become stealthy ninja assassins again for good. # Shujinko should follow "repentance for sins" type of storyline, unexpectedly coming to aid good guys in desperate situation. Like, imagine when they are surrounded by mighty enemies, and the suddenly one enemy is frozen, second struck with spear, third with telekineses. Everyone thinks "what??" and then Shujinko attacks other ones with Raiden's torpedo, etc. After ten seconds everybody is knocked out cold and then Shujinko disappears. Having such a cutscene in Konquest mode would be hilarious. As Shujinko is so overpowering, he can be comparable to the Joker in a deck of cards, and so he should be introduced in the storyline where there is need to fight another "Joker Card", something too big/strong like Onaga. # Hotaru is better off using his Order for better deeds, like saving the weak, punish some bandits, villains, oppressors, hunting criminals at least. His obsession with order, order and more order is cool gimmick, but the way you showed him in Konquest makes him truly hated by some fans; while I see Hotaru has great potential in storyline, design and special moves. Try to make his obsession with order kinda more like obsession with justice, i e show that sometimes order can be good. The other cool twists can be him always thinking highly of himself as personification of Order, especially when he is not amongst non-Seidan Guards, but talks with other people in different realms. # Shao Kahn - As boss and ruler he already became an standart, classic thing engraved in stone. Making him a regular selectable character like in MKD will give him the chance to develop further as character, i.e. he wont be ruler/emperor for some time, but a wanderer like in MKD; basically keeping the same persona but acting in new environment/situations is a key to character development. ======== Graphics\|==================================================\|XA3\| ======== # MKD-Style of promotional renders/ingame renders # 2 costumes per character. One of them should look resemble the one from classic MK games (MK1-2-3-4). No "clone" attires between characters (well MK moved from that recently anyway) # You can try to use face textures of living actors, like wrestling games do, to make characters look more realistic. # Visual damage system like in MKvsDC, but damage should be split for body parts (when opponent's leg takes hit, it should take visible damage instead of wound appearing on his forehead, for example). Also make clothes tatter. # If character has weapon, it should be present on the character model (sword in sheath, knives on sides, etc) until he takes it out. We realize this cannot be done in case all character have weapons (i.e. characters in light costumes like Liu Kang, Li Mei just dont seem to have the place to carry weapons), but such characters dont need weapons. Characters like Kenshi, Scorpion, on other hand, need sword sheath behind the back almost desperately to complement their character image. Characters like Raiden, Nightwolf, Sub-Zero can create weapons from their elemental powers (Raiden's staff can be summoned by lightning easily). No unuseable weapons should be placed on character models as well. # Fatalities should have cinematic camera angles like in MK4 # Realistic dismemberment (like if Reptile does his head eat move, you should be able to see the jagged areas where your flesh and bone have been ruined) # Realistic blood (and especially amount of blood) # Deathtraps must show lava when Blaze is killed, green blood when Reptile, Chameleon, or Khameleon are killed, and black ''blood'' when Cyrax, Sektor, Noob, and Smoke are killed. # FMV character endings if you will have enough time/money left after you do all other stuff mentioned here. # Loading Screens shouldnt reveal entire storyline like in MKvsDC, instead they should focus on characters/arenas like in MKDA/MKD ===== Sound\|==================================================\|XA4\| ===== # Music should be done by Dan Forden (who did music for all MK games except MKA and MKvsDC) # Add more MK1-movie-style music. It was great. And MK theme by The Immortals is still wanted by fans to be in an MK game. # Professional voice actors (the point is, the more unique voices the more unique characters will become) # Characters cannot scream AFTER moment of their death (just for plain reason they are dead already) # Announcer should say "Fight" like in classic MKs, not this new "Foich". Foich sounds bad. ===== Modes\|==================================================\|XA5\| ===== \|Arcade Mode\| # totally randomized ladder (characters/arenas) # all characters and arenas (except boss ones) have same chances of appearing in ladder \|2-on-2 Mode\| # And 2-on-2 mode from UMK3/MK4. Tag-Team mode if possible (was done in MKTE, and also in MKD via Noob-Smoke) \|Survival Mode\| # Something like in MKU/MKA, but needs both random characters/arenas, and in the end you fight bosses. \|Time Attack Mode\| \|Vs Mode\| # When you enter it without 2nd player, after selecting your character/arena, you select opponent's character and CPU plays him. Also make CPU vs CPU feature possible. \|Practice Mode\| # An option to fight against the computer on any difficult wanted. # Movelists should be avialable only in practice \|Konquest\| # Explains involvement of characters you encounter, with game's boss/main bad guy. # Like in MKD konquest, multiple realms should be featured, and you can roam them free (unlike linear MKA konquest) # Ability to fight minor henchmen in Konquest like it was in MKSM/MKA can stay; main fights with characters are done in usual MK fighting mode. # No relics # Characters involved in canon storyline of game are featured as part of main quest. Other characters can be there as cameos / side missions, which can be uncanon. # If there are unlockables that are very hard to find, speaking to some NPC'es should give you hints. # You should be able to fight as different characters throughout the Konquest. For example imagine that Hornbuckle is main hero of MK9 Konquest, and he doesnt have ability to turn into other characters like Shujinko. BUT! during Konquest he can surely see other characters fighting each other (like in MKD Ashrah vs Baraka, Ashrah vs Ermac), and at that point you are given control of one of fighting characters. # Also some mini side-missions allowing you to roam the realms as other characters should be good too. Example with Hornbuckle again: He needs to get artifact from temple A, but guards prevent him from entering, so he goes to Lin Kuei and hires Sub-Zero to steal an artifact, then you take control of Sub-Zero, and you should launch a stealth attack at the temple at night, steal artifact and deliver back to Lin Kuei, and there you again take control of Hornbuckle. # Good quality cutscenes # Secret characters/stages should be well hidden in Konquest \|Extra Modes\| # No Motor Kombat. MKD minigames were good, but its better to concentrate on main modes. \|Krypt\| # No cheat codes to unlock everything # Many unlockables, since MK9 is new generation MK, you can insert in its Krypt all stuff from MKDA/MKD/MKA krypts; in same manner you inserted MK1/2/3/4 stuff in MKDA krypt. # Several types of Koins again. Having one koin type like in MKA looks too plain. Basically MKD format of Krypt is the best. \|Online Mode\| # Better netcode # Keep an option to allow/disallow deathtraps in battle (if present) # Make an option to allow/disallow in battle # Make an option toallow/disallow, KAK's in battle (if present) ======== Gameplay\|==================================================\|XA6\| ======== # Use minimum unblockables (Remember Superman's Ground Pound, remember Dairou's sidestep cancelled 15-frame Tombstone Drop, remember MKvsDC Rage unblockable combos.) # Unlimited breakers like MKvsDC (or dispose of all infinites, which is doubtful) # 50% Maximum Damage should work good against infinites as well # Parries # Fast transition from high to low block # Wake-up game, ability to delay get-up, to stand-up with attack, etc. # No Air Kombat, maximum is MK4 air kombat (you can link 2 attacks and aerial special move) # Special Moves inserted in combos (like in MKvsDC, and previously it was in MK4 to some degree) # Pro Moves (but those need testing, or we will get new Superman Ground Pound) # Different looking stances for characters (preferably signature ones from classic MK games, but for characters like Noob Saibot stance can be taken from MKD/MKA, because there he got unique stance for first time) # Names of fighting styles are unnecessary, however some signature normals from them (in MKDA-MKD-MKA) can be implemented so each character will have visually different (albeit unnamed) fighting style. You can also mix elements of different fighting styles for one character like it was in MKSM. # No Klose Kombat and no Freefall Kombat as long as they are determined by random button-mashing without any skill involved. (If you insert some actual fighting system into them, they can stay. In Freefall Kombat each hit should do damage to character who visually receives it, instead of what we have in MKvsDC) # Each character should have unique throw as well. If throw doesnt sets up the juggle, it should do bigger damage instead, or put space between characters. Throws like Dairou had were basically useless. # About Rage mode: If its present, it should give just damage boost, maybe for longer time than in MKvsDC but without unblockable hits. Also, thinking logically, Rage should be achieved by taking damage or whiffing special move for most time. Giving Rage to character because opponent blocks his hits, which will lead to unblockables in Rage mode is kinda silly, it always puts defending character in unfavourable position. If you want something against block, add some slow unblockable stun hit in the game, which can do no damage but acts like guard breaker. Actually, many people dont like it as it is now. # Weapons should be used for characters they are vital to (Kabal, Kenshi, Kitana, Mileena etc) either as special moves, parts of combo attacks, or fighting stance. Instead of wasting one of 4 buttons to switching between stances like you did for Baraka in MKvsDC, you can make the switching as special move command. # Just in case someone will have 3 stances like in MKDA/MKD, add ability to switch stances in both directions, to create more diverse combos # Implement MKDA's style-specific special moves as regular moves as you did before. -You made weapon Sidestep Swing from MKDA a normal attack; -You made Neijin and Escape a special move in MKA for some characters -You included parry in the game as well. -Which means you can include rest of those as special moves as well. ====================== Individual Arena Notes\|===================================================\|XA7\| ====================== # Remakes of MK1/MK2 arenas are overall highly requested # Deathraps being possible on last round only (to dispose from character illogically being alive in second round after being killed in deathtrap in first one) ========================== Individual Character Notes\|==================================================\|XA8\| ========================== # Costumes from MKvsDC are good, they probably can be used as alt costumes for MK9. Example: Scorpion 1st costume his Champion outfit (MKD), second costume his normal outfit (MKvsDC) # Characters dont need to have unuseable extra weapons sticked to their costumes. Like Raiden with sword at waist, fighting with long staff at same time; looks stupid. # Cage -Cage should have his most iconic costume - MK2 costume. Other ones just dont cut it. -His glasses should be black instead of blue; all actors wear black glasses to get more coolness (just remember Terminator 2 movie) -Brint back his Nutcracker for the sake of god, without it he starts to fail as character very fast. # Cyrax -Cyrax should get his net or he isnt Cyrax. -His MKDA costume, while being modelled good, had way too much of flashing LEDs and other blinking lights which made him look less threatening and more like New Year's tree -His Spinkick move seems out of place in his moveset and character theme, better to left it in Darrius' moveset. The very idea that Cyrax is sooo cybernetically enhanced he learned...guess what, to spin on one leg (and then seeing in the next game non-cyborg character doing the same) makes many fans chuckle. # Darrius -Darrius needs better costume. His alt wasnt exactly inspiring, it looked more like 80's thing. His first costume looks way too futuristic, and looks bad while fighting on ancient MK arena. -As Darrius is Jax's replacement, decide who of them has hair, and who is bald (since both variations were present in past). If Darrius goes with baldhead/mustache, then Jax goes with MK2/MK3 look; if Jax goes with baldhead/mustache like in MK:Annihillation movie, Darrius goes with hair on the head. -While Jax goes with look and persona of powerful brute fighter, give Darrius a persona of a smart, tactical and manipulative man, albeit musclebound. -There is a character similar to Darrius in Earth: Final Conflict TV series, called Augur. Although less musclebound, he shares his look, skin tone, glasses (a bit different), persona (albeit not ruthless),technological advance, being part of underground rebel movement against oppressive government, as well as being wanted. -Gauntlets were cool weapon, they need to stay # Ermac -Mystic Float move needs more options, at least the ability to simply cancel it. # Jade -Returning Boomerang should possible (look into Batman's returning batarang for that cause) # Jax -Jax shouldnt look and talk like ghetto gangsta' rapper with medallion on neck that makes him look like 50 cent. Jax is a tough soldier, not a racist stereotype of black man. -Jax looks tougher than ever when he looks like John Parrish (MK2/MK3). -If you want to go with bald Jax, make him look like in MK:Annihilation movie. -Bring Quadruple Slam and Gotcha Grab back again; -Machine Gun: As for big powerful man with huge metal arms relying on tiny short-range machine gun doing low damage, it doesnt looks good. I thought guns are for Strykers. # Hsu Hao I will say whats wrong with him, so you can change it if you want to make him more likeable 1)Bottom half of his costume is way too plain-looking. Very generic. Looks like some random guy from backgrounds of Zangief in SF 2)He doesnt needs this facial hair, together with being bald it makes him look like some Lenin wannabe or "generic henchman" 3)His eyes are way too thin, and facial skin has wrinkles, that wont do. 4)His fighting stances always looked so generic, and not a bit like those from asian kick-flick movies 5)His special moves were strange. He is no big fat shokan warrior to jump on opponent, and no Fujin to create wind by some clap. 6)Most non-flashy character in MK (hell even Mokap stands out more) Now good stuff about him: 1)His render on MKDA select screen was actually a good one, when I first saw it in magazine I liked the character. Heres how I imagined him at that time: An military-styled martial artist, using maybe sambo, maybe kick-oriented style. He looked to men at the time like a much cooler twist of SF's Dictator (M.Bison in USA/Vega in Japan), bare chested to show muscles (an insanely cool metal thing on it), with different skin color that rest of cast, with cap covering eyes with shadow as Kung Lao's hat (it looks cool), and I envisioned lower half of his body as Dictator's pants with big metal shin guards, not to mention I didnt saw facial hair because picture in magazine was lowres, and I didnt saw wrinkles and thin eyes because cap and shadow from it covered those. Well you can probably imagine how I was disillusioned when I selected him ingame ^^ 2)His laser turret move in MKA / fatality in MKDA were actually pretty good ones. 3)He was highly effective in all games he appeared, though all of it looked extremely non-flashy # Kai -Kai needs his old look/design back. With his MKA design he should go play some Quake 3 because looks like he belongs there better. -Make him better than in MKA where he was bottom tier with worst styles in game, and without any priority for special moves # Kabal -Dispose of his telekinetic headbutt, it looks silly. And dont say Ermac teached him as well. -Give his saw to him, or any other new move. # Kenshi Kenshi's moveset should concentrate more on his sword powers, and his telekinetic moveset (if present) should be completely different from Ermac. As I am hardcore Samurai Shodown fan, I know quite a lot of weapon-based special moves. A simple example is: Kenshi faces to the screen holding sword with two hands behind his head (like before swing), if you hold button he will continue standing and sword will be suddenly encased in blue energy (like his telekinesis), if you hold even longer it will be encased in red energy (as portrayed in renders and endings). When you release button he makes very fast upward slash with energy arc that will damage nearby opponent as well, until dissipates. Level 1 (no energy) makes lesser damage, Level 2 (blue energy) makes more damage, Level 3 (red energy) is also unblockable. Opponent which is close to Kenshi, will block, because he knows that Kenshi can release button at any moment and instantly attack. But if opponent will sit in the block too much, he will eat an unblockable anyway. Kenshi is vulnerable if he is attacked while he havent released button, and also vulnerable if he releases button on Level 1 or 2, and attack gets blocked. Such move, however is very good to use on wakeup. And you should make it tracking, so it cannot be sidestepped; it wont have big range anyway, so opponent theoretically can backdash to evade it if he isnt knocked down or sitting there blocking in first place. # Kira & Kobra -Those characters, while being certainly not most popular MK characters, have one big chance to become more appealing; and to use that chance you need to make them look closer to Siro and Taja from Mortal Kombat Conquest TV series. Granted, they already have some common design elements, and it catched my attention to Kira & Kobra in first place, but similarity isnt recognizable enough (yet). -Needless to say, they need some new, more martial-art looking moves (I refer mainly to Kira, but Kobra's fireballs instantly reminded me of Liu Kang, which isnt good) -Kira needs to have her face remodelled to be more feminine # Liu Kang -Liu Kang can have One Inch Punch attack, as he is a homage to Bruce Lee after all # Motaro -As everyone knows, he needs 4 legs! # Nightwolf -He doesnt really needs Lightning From Above, its stolen from Rain, and even Raiden the god of Thunder doesnt have one, whats the reason for Nightwolf to have it? Its not his character theme. He can have some druid powers instead (look moveset of Druid in Diablo II) -He is also the character that clearly needs transforming into animal (wolf) for either animality, fatality, or during fight. People start to forget why he is called NightWOLF, you know? -Giving Tae Kwon Do to Native Americal was like the worst styles idea ever. It looked so out of place... # Noob Saibot -Noob Saibot should get his long-awaited scythe back as his weapon, instead of silly Troll Hammer. Seriously, whats the point of stupid gag on a dark and brutal character? Oh, dark stealthy ninja assassins now like to use Big Sledgehammers? Then how about Baseball Bat? (sarcasm) About the scythe, except that Noob used it in MK4, it fits both his themes: 1)Scythe is symbol of death and a dark creature Noob is; and 2)Ninjas used scythes, sickles and other farm tools as weapons because they werent prohibited to carry; so ninja weapon right here. -He needs his signature Disabler. If you think that Disabler is overpowering, there is a way to balance it: Make a move where Noob summons something like a ball of shadow essence (maybe several summons are possible, each one making ball bigger) - essentially doing this makes him opened for hit, so he should first knock opponent down; then after enough shadow essence is collected, he can fire a Disabler (which effectively wastes shadow essence and he must summon it again). -His MKD/MKA costumes need to stay, they are very cool. Human-looking one is easily explained as being Brotherhood of Shadow uniform (you can see plenty of these in MKD Konquest), and black costume is wraith one, which is classic. # Raiden -Raiden's alt costume should be without his hat like in last games. His bottom half should be more sleek like in MKD/MKD, because it makes him look more like a fighter; hakama that he had in MKDA alt costume, made him look like a samurai, and together with long staff, hat on his back and electricity it made him look like KAK from different parts. DONT place his (and Kung Lao's) hat on their back, it dumbs their otherwise badass look down, closer to level of ninja turtle. -Raiden's face should look ageless (like he looked in MKDA-MKD-MKA), not an old man with wrinkles like in MKvsDC. He's a god after all. His MKD/MKA alt costume would be one of coolest looking character models in MKD if we could dispose of hat and sword. # Rain -He should get more his classic moves, his moveset in MKA was very weak compared to what he had earlier. # Reptile -He should be in human camouflage like MK2/MKSM 2nd Player outfit, when damaged, morem reptilian features are revealed (example: You knock ninja mask and camouflage "human" skin around eyes, and Reptile's had looks like in MKA/MKSM 1st Player). -If you want to keep with lizard-looking Reptile, it can be his other costume like in MKA. -His MKDA fatality does really good job of combining both of his classic UMK3 fatalities into one. This clears space for his second fatality being completely new one (or it can be invisibility-based). # Reiko -Desperately needs to be his own character with own special moves again like in MK4. Stop making him Shao Kahn wannabe, it isnt funny, its as if he doesnt have a person on his own, and his only thought is "Me = Shao Kahn". -Go with Brotherhood of Shadow storyline, and explain why he and Sareena have same tattoos on face and same black/white hair. -Devastator would be much better weapon to him than a hammer that is Shao Kahn's hammer wannabe. # Scorpion -All his fatalities were mostly based on 3 perspectives (Fire, use of Spear, hell summon). Best Fire-based fatality is Toasty, best Spear-based is MKD Spear one, best hell-based is MKvsDC To Hell & Back fatality. Particularly, Scorpion's winpose/battlecry was a key element for his MKD Spear fatality. Winpose was classic MK1 one and battlecry was very cool. -From here comes an improvement: Make Toasty a special move again like in MK4. This leaves a room for him having To Hell & Back fatality and to Spear-based fatality period, this ALSO leaves room for alternative costume without showing his skull (as its already shown in special move), which means he can get two ninja costumes (new one and classic-looking one) -His MKD alt costume, while being based on MK4 one, had one flaw: His forehead was too covered and that gave an impression of low/small forehead. # Sektor -He needs homing missiles again (take them from Lex Luthor in MKvsDC) # Shang Tsung -He can morph!! Think: usually 2 player models are loaded; in MKD versus Noob-Smoke 3 models were loaded total, and Noob-Smoke player could switch models by pressing Change Style button. Now just insert Shang Tsung instead of Noob, before match select randomly other character and load him instead of Smoke, make process of change look like morphing in puff of smoke, and instead of Change Style button use command for Morph special move. Easy. -As well, he can morph into opponent, whose data is already loaded as well -DONT make his morphs MK4-Shinnok-like, because there already are 3 characters from such league (Shujinko, Chameleon, Khameleon) # Shinnok -He needs his MK4 fatalities back, they were easily one of the best in MK. # Shujinko -He needs to have his OWN (different-looking) versions of other character moves. -Giving him both freeze and spear looks kind of silly. Their function is almost the same, plus they are too much signature to dont look stupid when copied. # Sindel -She needs her Levitate move from MK3, and few actions in air (at least aerial fireball) # Smoke -His MKD/MKA costumes need to stay, they are cool-looking. The cyborg costume is allright, I suppose the pipes on it serve to produce the smoke; the other costume is supposedly a cyber-demon one, first cool thing about is the fact that it is a nod to classic Human Smoke's ninja costume; second cool thing is the fact his body is composed from actual smoke; third cool thing is the mask, which looks both cybernetic and ninja-like. Yes, real historical ninjas had a technique where they weared full face mask of some creature to scare opponent. Those of you who watch Naruto series, will find this aspect there as well - the ANBU organisation members wear animal masks there. # Sub-Zero - Add spine to head that he rips in Freeze & Shatter MKD fatality, and you get 3 (!) classic fatalities into one (Deep Freeze~Shatter, Ice Grenade, Spine Rip). It will be a brilliant decision which clears space for another fatality which can be new. MK3 Freeze Breath and MKD Leg Freeze fatalities were some of the coolest (pun intended). Uninspired characters without much personality, that most people dont want to see (if big need to sacrifice/kill/stop using some characters in MK arises, those can be the ones) = -Kira (illigitemate child of Sonya and Kano) -Kobra (illigitemate child of Sonya and Johhny Cage) -Darrius (alter ego of Jax) -Mokap (joke character) -Hsu Hao (mongolian janitor) -Mavado (Sephiroth wannabe with cloned weapons) -Daegon (Ugh, he certainly doesnt looks like most menacing evil guy in MK history, he has Taven's weapons x2 and Nitara's style, and he is nothing special) -Jarek (alter ego of Kano, and in MKA he had weird costumes, weird storyline, and not suiting fighting style) then to the lesser extent: -Bo Rai Cho (largely because he is misbehaving, instead of his looks/story) -Frost (capitalizing solely on moves borrowed from prev. incarnations of Sub-Zero) -Taven ("Im totally clueless cause I just awakened but here I am an almighty half-god, easily kicking ass of every other MK character, and taking the grand prize") -Li Mei (she's kinda not bad, but not good either because she brings nothing new to the table, much like Taven) questionable characters also are: -Stryker (He is controversial, in MK3 he didnt looked good, then became combo monster when he got his gun shot special in UMK3. In MKA he doesnt looks like himself anymore, he is like some other character (Johnny Cage in different glasses). He has no super powers, or big martial prowess, and overall looks way too common; some people think he doesnt belongs to MK) -All new characters that were only in MKDA and MKA (a game without clear storyline), ended up being not developed enough in terms of storyline. Nitara is good example of that. -----signature----- "The world will look up and shout, “Save Us!” and we’ll look down and whisper "No!" (C) Elder Gods "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread http://forums.midway.com/future_mortal_kombat_game_discussion/b10741/29811760/r29825188/
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noob-killa Posts: 925 Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 2/27 6:19am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	sounds good. -----signature----- if any one wants to see the real me Click the link below www.wah_mate.bebo.com WOOP!
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terrellsubby Posts: 10,138 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 2/27 6:21am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	Holy **** you read all that? -----signature----- MKA TOURNEY SURVIVAL™-MONSTER Wins FATALITY!!! MONSTER_FANZ_CLUB™ PM me to join. Tiberius Ruled http://mortalkombat1388.proboards.com/index.cgi Join and I'll approve you. PM me here to tell me who you are MK RULZORZZZ!!!
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warrior333 Posts: 100 Registered: Jun '08	Date Posted: 2/27 6:26am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=- - Date Edited: 2/27 6:28am (1 edits total) Edited By: warrior333
	The graphics really should look like this (the details and lighting, not the character design): http://www.mkmonks.com/images/mk_monks_reptile_render.jpg With photorealistic faces.
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Black_Shroud Posts: 1,720 Registered: Nov '08	Date Posted: 2/27 6:30am Subject: -=\| "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread \|=-
	To my knowledge, we usually see graphic of such level on renders only, while ingame models and textures are of lower quality. This may change, though, from MKvsDC -----signature----- "The world will look up and shout, “Save Us!” and we’ll look down and whisper "No!" (C) Elder Gods "MK9: from fans to developers" official summary thread http://forums.midway.com/future_mortal_kombat_game_discussion/b10741/29811760/r29825188/
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