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Author	Topic: MKSM should be canon
mGlottalstop Posts: 5,595 Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 7/10 6:18am Subject: MKSM should be canon
	After 10,000 years of brainwashing, I doubt Shao ,Kahn would need a spell to control Kitana. She was a little girl during the time of Kahn's takeover, as shown in Sindel's MK3 ending picture, and Kahn's reign last for 10,000 years. Given the mental stress Kitana might've endured, such as her father's murder, her mother's suicide, the loss of her beautiful home and friends, she could've easily blocked out the memories and become a willing believer of Shao Kahn's story. Also, a point to remember, there is no break between MK2 and MK3, so there is no time after MK2 for Kitana to kill Mileena, get dethroned, have Shao Kahn return, and have him sentence her to death for treason and murder. Something I've noticed, however, Kitana's sentiment at the end of MKSM about restoring the Outworld to the way her father wanted, it matches her MK2 ending, where the Outworld seemingly was just a corrupted Edenia. -----signature----- "It's spelt mGlottalstop... it's not hard!" "Call me, Joey, it's easier." -- I'm gay. Don't make an issue of it. Another other FaceBookers out there? Add me: http://www.facebook.com/mGlottalstop
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subzero961 Posts: 1,524 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 7/10 12:15pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	I would have thought that too. And the elder one did die in MK1's events. But why would Quan Chi wait until the younger Sub-Zero was also killed before announcing his purpose to Scorpion? And it is almost common sense that he meant the younger Sub-Zero when he said to "defeat my nemesis", despite the younger not being his nemesis. It's just the way the situation is and right after Quan Chi thinks the younger one is finished. It might have even had to do with him being worried that he would use the knowledge given to him by his older brother to stop him and Shinnok. It wasn't so much as him waiting for the younger Sub-Zero to be defeated as it was him playing a classic villain who insists on revealing his plans. Scorpion started to believe Sub-Zero when he said his clan wasn't responsible for Scorpion's family's murder and asked who was his family's true murderer and that's when Quan Chi finally revealed to Scorpion that it was him all along and how he has been using Scorpion the whole time. Basically it was Quan Chi bringing Scorpion up to speed why he was allowed to seek revenge on Sub-Zero in the first place. I get that now. But how would you think that Mileena got killed behind the scenes then? When would have been the best opportunity? As for the Kitana part: What do you think happened after she took Shao Kahn's throne and took control of Outworld to rebuild it as her true father, King Jerrod, intended to rule it? (I know that was Edenia in the real storyline. But she contradicting that and was basically saying that Outworld was a corrupted Edenia and not a merged realm that should be separated. This is evident and unexplained.) I don't know the details as to where and how it happened. Just that at some point after MK2 Kitana caught up with Mileena somewhere and killed her. It could have been before Kahn took power again or shortly afterwords, I'm not quite sure. I don't think you got me on this part. I don't contend that Kitana took Kahn's throne, it's obvious by the events of MK3 that Kahn is still in charge. MK:SM just says she plans on rebuilding the realm not that she actually did it. I suppose it's possible that she ruled Outworld very briefly before Kahn took power, but I don't see any evidence as to that being the case. Liu Kang said to Sub-Zero that Kitana may have been in danger and that Mileena was going to seek help from Goro. He can't be in hiding if he's helping the people that work under the guy he's hiding from. He did not reemerge from the shadows until after Shao Kahn's defeat. If Mileena really did seek help from Goro, as Kitana also announced and knew was still alive, then I'm sure Kahn would have gotten word. The MK4 official comic also has Kitana surprised that Goro is alive. She is not aware that he lived after MK1 in there. Nothing mentions a Wastelands fight. The only thing that I can agree with from your statement is that the Wastelands is a good hiding place. Of course he can, there is nothing that says Goro can't still have contacts while still in hiding. I don't see anything in the MK4 comic that suggests Kitana being surprised that Goro is alive. I see the centaurs and shokan being surprised, but Kitana never commented. The way MK:SM ends, it just seems too strange for it to begin as it does in MK3/UMK3/MK:T. It sounds a lot more fitting to me as less of a contradiction that Shao Kahn trying to take over Earthrealm again in MK3's events after simply being beaten by the Earth warriors in MK2. That was his way of getting revenge and being humiliated and a last resort. Not a death and a revival. The plan took 10 years to accomplish with Sindel's soul. His death in MK2 might have cut that off. Do you really think that if there was an MK3 remake game that it would explain all of the deaths and the ending of MK2? I can only imagine it beginning with Shao Kahn trying to take over Earth again and no one truly being like "What?! Shao Kahn is still alive? I thought we killed him!" MK2 just explains everything better to me between MK1's ending to MK3's beginning and the rest of the games. MK:SM only leaves assumptions. Not facts like we are trying to guess now. I don't understand how you think it's strange how MK:SM ending when that was pretty much one thing they matched to how the original MK2 story ended (which is your position isn't it). In MK2 arcade game it shows Shao Kahn being turned into stone and exploding as well. I actually can imagine someone being surprised that Shao Kahn is still alive and taking over Earthrealm again. But even if it doesn't that doesn't mean that they aren't surprised, crappy dialogue and unrealistic reactions isn't evidence of them thinking Shao Kahn is alive. I can understand you thinking MK2 explaining the immediate aftermath of MK1 better than MK:SM because of the comic book, but how can you possibly think it explains MK2 better. The comic book stops right before the characters going into Outworld and any pieces of information that we do know comes from 12 short paragraphs of character bios which doesn't explain what they did in Outworld either, just explains how they got to Outworld. Before MK:SM the actual events of MK2 was notoriously vague and minimal. If retconing is what you are truly trying to do, then why? What is it about MK:SM that you cannot accept that all things do not match up with the real storylines and that it is actually an alternate timeline of events for MK2? MK2 is MK2. When you ask a veteran MK player a question about what happened after MK1 and before MK3, they will tell you all about the original MK2. That is what a huge chunk of the MK fan base still believe to be true and reference to those bios and endings all of the time. Because the MK team made it no secret that one of the purposes of MK2 was to expand the MK2 storyline and fill in the questions. MK:SM does that, you learn lots of different bits of information that you do not in the original MK2 arcade game. I'm sorry I don't subscribe to your interpretation of MK2 being the real storyline and MK:SM being an alternate time line for MK2. You need to learn that everybody is going to have their own interpretations, not only about MK plot but about everything in the world in general, the difference between you and me is I don't particularly care that you or "the majority" (which you haven't proven) subscribe to the original MK2 storyline, but you seem to be determined to get me to subscribe to your point of view. I may also add that I seriously believe that the MK team meant for the game to be the canon version of the story. If you read the Fight Night transcript on MK Online website you will see many questions about the story that the MK development team tries to explain away. My point is that if he died in MK2 and came back because of the vow before MK3, he would also be aware of it when he died again after Raiden's blast. If he knew the fact was true in MK:DA's intro then I'm sure he would not have killed Shao Kahn because he was the one guy who could always revive you if you died. And killing that guy would mean you don't get anymore second chances. And if Shao Kahn died in MK2 and came back to life for MK3, then Shao Kahn being alive again should not have been so hard for him to realize when he saw him again in his MK:A bio. He would have immediately thought about how Shao Kahn would come back to life again as he did before MK3 after he and Quan Chi killed him. I think he was aware of it. I don't buy into that he wouldn't try and kill Shao Kahn for the sole reason that he was the one guy who could always revive you. Shang Tsung has always been trying to forge his own destiny and not be dependent on Shao Kahn. I think the last thing on his mind is, "let me serve Shao Kahn, worse comes to worse at least I'll come back to life." No Shang Tsung would have been surprised, yes it's not so easy to kill Shao Kahn, but the difference here is that Shang Tsung believed he actually succeeded in killing Shao Kahn, he didn't believe Shao Kahn would return anymore even though he probably knew in the back of his head it was possible. That's why he was surprised that Shao Kahn was alive. What I'm saying doesn't contradict MK2 anymore or has to do with MK:SM contradicting MK2. It's about how in MK:SM Baraka could live with a blade in his head and a blade in his chest. AND how I just realized that Baraka might have suffered Kung Lao's vertical slice during Mortal Kombat: Trilogy's end and NOT MK2. Him being alive in his Trilogy bio was canon as far as we know and explains his absence. With the blade part in mind, perhaps he has some kind of healing factor to live through mortal wounds and so the staples were only holding his halves together until he healed back together years later when MK:D came up. There were many years between MK4 and MK:DA. Even more with MK4 and MK:D. Just a cool thing to BELIEVE that I thought would interest you. You can go with him having some kind of healing power if you want, I personally don't see any evidence of it, but to each their own. Very well. She could have been under a spell by Kahn. I will never believe the fact though until I hear it in a game that carries the continuity. So we'll have to permanently disagree on this unless otherwise and one of us can find the fact in a non-MK:SM or MK/DC game. I do not derive facts from games I see as non-canon. At least we both can agree MK/DC is non-canon. I never said their bios. I just said somewhere. But I really thought I heard this. I might be mistaken. I was just somehow convinced that this was how it was. Perhaps the fact that Shao Kahn first began turned his attention to Edenia MILLIONS of years ago and how Kitana is only THOUSANDS of years old. I can get you the explanation on why I think it was millions of years ago too. :P Yeah I'm interested in the explanation why you think it was millions of years ago, anything to help me understand the story better. So you're saying that we should accept that as canon because it was something that had to be done for the player who played Kung Lao to feel accomplished? Why not, I don't think Kung Lao is the official champion anyways, it's more of Raiden showing his respect and gratitude for Kung Lao's efforts in defeating Shao Kahn since he knew Kung Lao wanted to be champion. But if Shinnok thought he had his amulet, he would have figured it out sooner when he realized he couldn't escape the Netherrealm with it's powers. He created the amulet and knows it better than anybody else does. I'm not saying that the amulet wasn't used though. Maybe it even took a long time to even accomplish getting Shinnok out of the Netherrealm and it was one of those risky things. But Quan Chi also could not have released Shinnok with it. I was just now going to use that and have Quan Chi say "Well...um...I all of the sudden have a power source that can get you out of here!" However, if memory serves me right then Quan Chi never knew how to even use the amulet's power until he studied the ruins that talked about it during his journeys in the Netherrealm. These instructions are what is burned on his body as tattoos. So if Shinnok did not have his amulet back and attain ultimate god-like power...and Quan Chi couldn't use it right at the time...then now I'm confused as to how Shinnok escaped other than that spontaneous orb thingy. Where the hell did that even come from? If Quan Chi made it then how is it he obtained that ability and not practice it sooner? This is where it gets into speculation, he could have waited to give Shinnok the amulet till around after MK3 or he could have immediately gave it to him and it took some time for Shinnok to prepare his forces, I don't know honestly. I would assume Shinnok gave Quan Chi basic instructions how to use it, but like I said information about how is non-existent. I just find it hard to believe that they did not use the amulet when MK Mythologies built up this whole back story about as long as the amulet remained out of Shinnok's reach he would be trapped in the Netherrealm for all eternity. Anyways I digress we kind of got off topic about MK:SM and really now arguing about MK4. MK2 = Shao Kahn dies. "Yay! Outworld is free from tyranny!" ~ Like the MK:SM ending. MK3 = Shao Kahn comes back and there is no word of surprise. Outworld is chaotic and still always ruled by him. Nobody is cheering about being freed anymore. MK:DA = Shao Kahn dies. "What?! Shao Kahn died?! This is big stuff! I guess this is permanent even though he's died before!" It takes a clone story for him to even come back. Where in MK3 do you expect to hear word of surprise? MK3 was a fighting game with no dialogue and no adventure game or comic book to show characters reactions? In MK:DA I'm sure in the back of their mind they always thought it possible for Shao Kahn to return since it happened twice already. I honestly never found any evidence that people made a big deal of Shao Kahn's death, the closest I found was in Kitana's MK:DA Konquest mode where it said word was starting to spread that Shao Kahn was killed by assassins so it appeared Kitana had won. Maybe it's only special gods that get to come back. I don't damn know. But they are killable. ...On second thought, Fujin may have been referencing to Raiden coming back as a new god only because he released his godly essence and not because he was simply killed. I'll go take a look. ^ IF that is true when I look it up (which you should do the same) then that completely kills all of the Shao Kahn coming back to life thing since Shao Kahn didn't do a massive explosion to release any godly essence like Raiden did. I think releasing the godlike essence does kill them. In Raiden's MK Deception trading card bio it was described as him sacrificing himself by releasing his godlike essence, even Fujin's MKA bio describes it as sacrificing himself and the releasing of his godlike essence created the ethereal blast. I'd also like to point out that in the MK Mythologies story it says Shinnok slew Lucifer and then captured his essence. -----signature----- http://subzero961.angelcities.com/index.html www.myspace.com/the_master_chink
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subzero961 Posts: 1,524 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 7/10 12:19pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	mGlottalstop posted: Also, a point to remember, there is no break between MK2 and MK3, so there is no time after MK2 for Kitana to kill Mileena, get dethroned, have Shao Kahn return, and have him sentence her to death for treason and murder. What are you basing this off exactly? The MK3 storyline suggests at least a small break. There was enough of a break for Jax to get steel arms, Liu Kang and Kung Lao to begin training a future generation of Shaolin Monks, for the Lin Kuei to start automating their warriors. If all that happened Kitana certainly had time to kill Mileena. -----signature----- http://subzero961.angelcities.com/index.html www.myspace.com/the_master_chink
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mGlottalstop Posts: 5,595 Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 7/10 12:52pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	subzero961 posted: mGlottalstop posted: Also, a point to remember, there is no break between MK2 and MK3, so there is no time after MK2 for Kitana to kill Mileena, get dethroned, have Shao Kahn return, and have him sentence her to death for treason and murder. What are you basing this off exactly? The MK3 storyline suggests at least a small break. There was enough of a break for Jax to get steel arms, Liu Kang and Kung Lao to begin training a future generation of Shaolin Monks, for the Lin Kuei to start automating their warriors. If all that happened Kitana certainly had time to kill Mileena. MK Trilogy's opening story: "The warrior monk, Liu Kang, would become the new Champion. But his victory was short lived as he and his comrades find themselves lured into the Outworld to compete in a second tournament. Little did they know that the tournament was merely a diversion. A scheme devised by the dark Emperor to break the rules set forth by the Elder Gods and witness the reincarnation of his former Queen Sindel on the Earth Realm itself." So while MK2 is taking place, Sindel is already being reborn, meaning that it segues straight into MK3 or, at the very most, a very small delay between the two. MKT's story overrides UMK3 and MK3's, making it the canon successor to MK2. The automation of Lin Kuei warriors may have begun whilst Sub-Zero was away from the clan, all that is known is that Sub-Zero returned and then fled. MKM:SZ proves that Jax's metal arms are removable covers since he chooses not to use them in MK2, as well as his MK:DA alternate costume not featuring them, so there is no time problem here. And I've found no reference to Kung Lao and Liu Kang training new warriors between MK2 and MK3. The closest I can find is Kung Lao having "plans to reform the White Lotus Society" which he has to "scrap" after becoming a target of the Extermination Squads. -----signature----- "It's spelt mGlottalstop... it's not hard!" "Call me, Joey, it's easier." -- I'm gay. Don't make an issue of it. Another other FaceBookers out there? Add me: http://www.facebook.com/mGlottalstop
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subzero961 Posts: 1,524 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 7/10 1:38pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	^ Fair enough about the Jax argument (though I think you meant to say MK:SF instead of MKM:S-Z. I can even see automation beginning with Sub-Zero still in Outworld. But here is what I was referring to about Liu Kang training a new generation of Shaolin: After winning the first Mortal Kombat and escaping from the Outworld, Liu Kang looks to the future. He begins training a new generation of Shaolin alongside Kung Lao. But nothing could prepare them for the unexpected Outworld invasion. Even then I don't buy the 2nd tournament being a diversion to mean the events happened right after each other with no break. The Outworld tournament was supposed to be a trap to seek revenge for being defeated while Shao Kahn starts to implement his plan to invade the Earthrealm. -----signature----- http://subzero961.angelcities.com/index.html www.myspace.com/the_master_chink
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mGlottalstop Posts: 5,595 Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 7/10 2:56pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	subzero961 posted: ^ Fair enough about the Jax argument (though I think you meant to say MK:SF instead of MKM:S-Z. I can even see automation beginning with Sub-Zero still in Outworld. But here is what I was referring to about Liu Kang training a new generation of Shaolin: After winning the first Mortal Kombat and escaping from the Outworld, Liu Kang looks to the future. He begins training a new generation of Shaolin alongside Kung Lao. But nothing could prepare them for the unexpected Outworld invasion. Even then I don't buy the 2nd tournament being a diversion to mean the events happened right after each other with no break. The Outworld tournament was supposed to be a trap to seek revenge for being defeated while Shao Kahn starts to implement his plan to invade the Earthrealm. Yeah, I meant MK:SF, well spotted! Where did that Liu Kang quote come from? I can find no reference to it in either Kang nor Kung's MKII or MK3 bios and endings. Also, regarding the piece I have italicised... you have just, yourself, described the diversion, the tournament forced the warriors into the Outworld so that, as you say, Shao Kahn can "implement his plan to invade the Earthrealm." -----signature----- "It's spelt mGlottalstop... it's not hard!" "Call me, Joey, it's easier." -- I'm gay. Don't make an issue of it. Another other FaceBookers out there? Add me: http://www.facebook.com/mGlottalstop
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subzero961 Posts: 1,524 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 7/10 3:22pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	Being lured to Outworld was a diversion, there was no real purpose for the Earth warriors to travel to Outworld and they were probably hoping to kill them in the process. It doesn't mean that they returned home just as Shao Kahn started invading the Earthrealm. -----signature----- http://subzero961.angelcities.com/index.html www.myspace.com/the_master_chink
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mGlottalstop Posts: 5,595 Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 7/10 3:33pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	Hmm... I stand corrected (which is, in itself, a rare occurence.) It's just a shame that Knag and Kung make no reference to it in their endings or bios throughout the entire series... Unfortunately, most of the MK story is open to interpretation. The canon series has gaps in it, I'll admit, but the MKSM retcon creates bigger gaps and therefore, as an MK fan, I cannot accept MKSM as canon in any way. -----signature----- "It's spelt mGlottalstop... it's not hard!" "Call me, Joey, it's easier." -- I'm gay. Don't make an issue of it. Another other FaceBookers out there? Add me: http://www.facebook.com/mGlottalstop
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legendofgods Posts: 32 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/10 4:47pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	yeeee!!!!! thats real funny why would you change mksm its already good enough for every body to play but thats your choice -----signature----- mk is a killer legond of all gods i am a god mkmkmkmkmkmkmkmkmk
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DragonFist Posts: 4,460 Registered: Aug '08	Date Posted: 7/10 9:19pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	From this big discussion lets all just say MKSM is not canon! To many eras in the game to be a reflection to MK History. -----signature----- Silence Falls on Earth's Darkest Night all cry for the dragon's might Roaring Loud he Launches to Flight for the evil attacks with demon lights Is this Dragon's final Fight? EMC
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tempacco25 Posts: 22 Registered: Sep '09	Date Posted: 9/21 10:26am Subject: MKSM should be canon
	agreed ther are a milloin things that happened in mk2 that did not happen in mksm because they didnt know what they were doing. tobias shoud come back soon and remake mksm so it is like mk2 again.
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liu_lao Posts: 197 Registered: Sep '09	Date Posted: 10/17 1:57pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	Firegrip posted: There is more than enough room from The tournament to Kahn's invasion for MKSM to have happened Shao Kahn died and we can't have that. All hail emporer Shao Kahn. -----signature----- All hail emperor Shao Kahn! if you are a member of Shao Kahns empire you get the benifits of 401 k and free pizza every monday and friday at the Outworld dining hall enjoy your stay in Outworld
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Zmoke Posts: 3,765 Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 10/17 4:58pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	Let's say MKSM is semi-canon. -----signature----- Links for you™ http://www.GOOGLE.com • http://www.WIKIPEDIA.org • http://www.YOUTUBE.com Midway Ninjas and Ninjettes Clan ninja member • MK Name topic RETURNS: http://tinyurl.com/yjqycjm ‹
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evil_emporer Posts: 22,331 Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 11/10 7:07pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	Zmoke posted: Let's say MKSM is semi-canon. Canon means it fits in with the regular storyline. It can't sort of be part of the story... -----signature----- The name's E. Evil_E. Just call me E_E. WARNING: 95% OF MY POSTS ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. You know how we have that little voice in our heads? Mine sounds like Deadpool. Want to be a part of the Error Macro Clan(EMC)? ^ Just PM me to join!
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Lui_Kang_HERO Posts: 1,875 Registered: Sep '07	Date Posted: 11/14 6:01am Subject: MKSM should be canon
	evil_emporer posted: Zmoke posted: Let's say MKSM is semi-canon. Canon means it fits in with the regular storyline. It can't sort of be part of the story... but it can have it's own storyline. dare i say it,but mksm had a much better storyline than mk2,i mean it would realy suck if everyone you fought simply ran away just like in mka. i mean,didn't you like the kintaro fatality -----signature----- winner of "Recluse's SAW games" and "the hounted hotel game" please join www.mknexusonline.com i am working on 2 mk projects,a forum game and an rpg game "mortal kombat isn't about death,but life" that means who dies in mortal kombat l
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