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Author	Topic: MKSM should be canon
evil_emporer Posts: 22,331 Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 7/4 6:02pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	There's many others you aren't acknowledging. - Scorpion was supposed to protect, or at least not harm, the younger Sub-Zero. - Kitana never got control of Outworld after Shao Kahn's defeat. - Goro was supposed to be presumed dead by everyone in MK until MK4 where he came back out from the shadows. It was his reappearance in MK4 that was the basis for Kung Lao's lust for revenge against him (since he thought he was killed during MK1). No ancestor thing was described in the game. - Shang Tsung was specifically given back his youth by Shao Kahn. - Reptile really did serve Shang Tsung! LOL. - This might be another one of your explainable plot holes, but ironically, every baddie in the game died except for Mileena, who was the only real one to die in the games. - Liu Kang came back to his temple to find it in ruins and make him want revenge on Shao Kahn's forces. - Sonya and Kano were somehow transported to Outworld early on and then captured while hiding. In there, Kano was not explained and Sonya was actually able to return to the academy. - MK3's intro clearly states that after Kano was freed with Sonya by Jax, he escaped into Outworld and Jax and Sonya followed him there later after returning home. No Kano death. - This might not be a plot hole, but the tarkata were stated to live in the Wastelands. That was actually one of the ONLY places they weren't in the game. - Baraka should have been almost killed by Kung Lao's vertical slice fatality (leading to his MK4 appearance). This might have been during MK:T's events though. So we might can pass by that. - Sub-Zero is being hunted by his once Earthrealm allies and is not on an assassination mission to kill Shang Tsung. It sounds more like his MK3 storyline than his MK2 one. - Kitana was never under a spell by Kahn. She always had complete control. She only gained the true knowledge about her father when "speaking to an Earth warrior". - Liu Kang won against Shao Kahn alone. Kung Lao never shared that victory. In MK:D, those dragon emblems over his tomb was to represent his "4 consecutive Mortal Kombat victories". Actually, Kung Lao got the living **** beat out of him trying to face Kahn in MK3. - Shao Kahn never had possession of the amulet. But who really knows what that was about? All we knew was that Quan Chi had the real amulet after MKM:SZ until MK:DA's events. And Quan Chi was actually the one to even give Kahn the idea to resurrect Sindel in Earthrealm long ago using Shinnok to corrupt her soul for MK3's events. So... There's probably a few others. But you KNOW some of those are unexplainable to the canon. -----signature----- The name's E. Evil_E. Just call me E_E. WARNING: 95% OF MY POSTS ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. You know how we have that little voice in our heads? Mine sounds like Deadpool. Want to be a part of the Error Macro Clan(EMC)? ^ Just PM me to join!
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subzero961 Posts: 1,524 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 7/4 7:06pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	evil_emporer posted: There's many others you aren't acknowledging. - Scorpion was supposed to protect, or at least not harm, the younger Sub-Zero. - Kitana never got control of Outworld after Shao Kahn's defeat. - Goro was supposed to be presumed dead by everyone in MK until MK4 where he came back out from the shadows. It was his reappearance in MK4 that was the basis for Kung Lao's lust for revenge against him (since he thought he was killed during MK1). No ancestor thing was described in the game. - Shang Tsung was specifically given back his youth by Shao Kahn. - Reptile really did serve Shang Tsung! LOL. - This might be another one of your explainable plot holes, but ironically, every baddie in the game died except for Mileena, who was the only real one to die in the games. - Liu Kang came back to his temple to find it in ruins and make him want revenge on Shao Kahn's forces. - Sonya and Kano were somehow transported to Outworld early on and then captured while hiding. In there, Kano was not explained and Sonya was actually able to return to the academy. - MK3's intro clearly states that after Kano was freed with Sonya by Jax, he escaped into Outworld and Jax and Sonya followed him there later after returning home. No Kano death. - This might not be a plot hole, but the tarkata were stated to live in the Wastelands. That was actually one of the ONLY places they weren't in the game. - Baraka should have been almost killed by Kung Lao's vertical slice fatality (leading to his MK4 appearance). This might have been during MK:T's events though. So we might can pass by that. - Sub-Zero is being hunted by his once Earthrealm allies and is not on an assassination mission to kill Shang Tsung. It sounds more like his MK3 storyline than his MK2 one. - Kitana was never under a spell by Kahn. She always had complete control. She only gained the true knowledge about her father when "speaking to an Earth warrior". - Liu Kang won against Shao Kahn alone. Kung Lao never shared that victory. In MK:D, those dragon emblems over his tomb was to represent his "4 consecutive Mortal Kombat victories". Actually, Kung Lao got the living **** beat out of him trying to face Kahn in MK3. - Shao Kahn never had possession of the amulet. But who really knows what that was about? All we knew was that Quan Chi had the real amulet after MKM:SZ until MK:DA's events. And Quan Chi was actually the one to even give Kahn the idea to resurrect Sindel in Earthrealm long ago using Shinnok to corrupt her soul for MK3's events. So... There's probably a few others. But you KNOW some of those are unexplainable to the canon. I'll go down your list one by one. 1. Scorpion protecting Sub-Zero was pretty much written out of the canon well before MK Shaolin Monks. Even Scorpion's MK2 bio directly contradicts it by stating he has returned from hell to once again stalk Sub-Zero. If that wasn't enough his MK4 ending shows him standing over Sub-Zero, implying he defeated him in battle. 2. Even during the normal MK2 storyline before MKSM Kitana never got control of Outworld after Shao Kahn's defeat as evident of Shao Kahn still being in control during the events of MK3. This isn't even really a plot hole. 3. I really have to disagree with one part here. One of the major themes of MKSM was about Kung Lao trying to enter the tournament then traveling to Outworld to restore honor to his ancestor. Most characters probably did still assume Goro was killed. Hell even after Johnny Cage finished him off again in Outworld, I'll bet even Liu Kang, Kung Lao and Johnny Cage assumed he was dead until his reappearance in MK4. 4. This isn't really a plot hole since we both aren't even on the same page as to the events. You are arguing for the original MK2 storyline while I take the position that MKSM retcons the MK2 storyline. Therefore from my point of view there is no plot hole, if there was some other place in the game where it says Shao Kahn directly gave Shang Tsung his youth back, then I'd have to agree there was a plot hole, but far as I'm aware it does not exist. 5. I found this to be more of Reptile displaying where his true allegiance lies. In his heart his master was always Shao Kahn and even if he was charged to be Shang Tsung's protector, he wouldn't feel he is Shang Tsung's servant in his heart. 6. Yeah I already explained this one, the oath thing pledged in Shang Tsung's MKA bio. As for Mileena, it wouldn't make sense for Liu Kang and Kung Lao to kill her since MK3 credits Kitana for killing her, and who is to say she didn't do that behind the scenes like Scorpion killing Sub-Zero. 7. Another case of us subscribing to 2 different versions of the events. In both our versions it still leads Liu Kang to go into Outworld. 8. I don't understand what your trying to say here. 9. No it doesn't, the MK3 intro says that Jax frees Sonya and Kano and Kano uses the chance to escape arrest. Doesn't say he escaped back into Outworld, because he was already in Outworld when Jax freed him. However you are correct that this is actually a plot hole with my version of the events, since Kano doesn't use his chance to escape arrest. The fight with Kano is one part I could concede as non canon for the sake of continuity of the series. 10. Yeah, oddity that I wouldn't really call a plot hole. 11. I'm sorry, I don't follow how this is a plot hole from MKSM? In MKSM Baraka was killed by having 2 swords stuck in him and the souls in the room killed him off, not from Kung Lao's body slice fatality. You'll have to explain to me what you mean here. 12. Yeah, the thing about being hunted by the Lin Kuei doesn't make much sense. Though to be fair this is just one piece of dialogue that can easily be ignored as it doesn't actually show Sub-Zero being hunted. But there is nothing that says he wasn't sent by his clan to assassinate Shang Tsung and having the ulterior motive to find out what happened to his brother. 13. In MK2 it never specifies if she had direct control or not. And it certainly doesn't say she gained knowledge of her father after talking to an Earthrealm warrior. It says her motives come under question after speaking to an Earthrealm warrior. Speaking to an Earthrealm warrior can very well be describing Kitana talking to Liu Kang after he frees her from the spell. 14. What other part of the story does this contradict? Liu Kang is indeed credited for 4 Mortal Kombat victories on his tomb, but I fail to see how that means Kung Lao shouldn't be credited for 1 of the victories. Kung Lao may have lost in MK3, but I'm sure he was a lot stronger fighting alongside Liu Kang during MK2. 15. Yes Quan Chi had the original Amulet since MKSM. This actually makes a lot of sense to me. If you will remember at the conclusion of MKSM Sub-Zero manages to steal the fake amulet though and hand it over to Raiden. Now fast forward to MK2 right after Liu Kang and Kung Lao quell the Tarkatan attack, Shang Tsung engages Raiden in a fight and Shang Tsung evidently somehow manages to subdue Raiden. Once Raiden was subdued it wouldn't be unusual for Shao Kahn to strip the amulet from Raiden. After Kahn was defeated Quan Chi would have needed to get hold of the fake amulet in order to give Shinnok the fake amulet, because there is no way he would have given Shinnok the real one. -----signature----- http://subzero961.angelcities.com/index.html www.myspace.com/the_master_chink
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TanyaWins Posts: 965 Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 7/5 8:41pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	No it should not, because Jade would be dead -----signature----- I'm losing logic and cruising deeper in the zone.
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Noz-King Posts: 762 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/5 9:19pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	TanyaWins posted: No it should not, because Jade would be dead Yeah and? -----signature----- X.C.O.P.Y. X.D.N.L X.F.L.A.T.
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evil_emporer Posts: 22,331 Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 7/5 9:23pm Subject: MKSM should be canon - Date Edited: 7/5 9:24pm (1 edits total) Edited By: evil_emporer
	subzero961 posted: I'll go down your list one by one. 1. Scorpion protecting Sub-Zero was pretty much written out of the canon well before MK Shaolin Monks. Even Scorpion's MK2 bio directly contradicts it by stating he has returned from hell to once again stalk Sub-Zero. If that wasn't enough his MK4 ending shows him standing over Sub-Zero, implying he defeated him in battle. 2. Even during the normal MK2 storyline before MKSM Kitana never got control of Outworld after Shao Kahn's defeat as evident of Shao Kahn still being in control during the events of MK3. This isn't even really a plot hole. 3. I really have to disagree with one part here. One of the major themes of MKSM was about Kung Lao trying to enter the tournament then traveling to Outworld to restore honor to his ancestor. Most characters probably did still assume Goro was killed. Hell even after Johnny Cage finished him off again in Outworld, I'll bet even Liu Kang, Kung Lao and Johnny Cage assumed he was dead until his reappearance in MK4. 4. This isn't really a plot hole since we both aren't even on the same page as to the events. You are arguing for the original MK2 storyline while I take the position that MKSM retcons the MK2 storyline. Therefore from my point of view there is no plot hole, if there was some other place in the game where it says Shao Kahn directly gave Shang Tsung his youth back, then I'd have to agree there was a plot hole, but far as I'm aware it does not exist. 5. I found this to be more of Reptile displaying where his true allegiance lies. In his heart his master was always Shao Kahn and even if he was charged to be Shang Tsung's protector, he wouldn't feel he is Shang Tsung's servant in his heart. 6. Yeah I already explained this one, the oath thing pledged in Shang Tsung's MKA bio. As for Mileena, it wouldn't make sense for Liu Kang and Kung Lao to kill her since MK3 credits Kitana for killing her, and who is to say she didn't do that behind the scenes like Scorpion killing Sub-Zero. 7. Another case of us subscribing to 2 different versions of the events. In both our versions it still leads Liu Kang to go into Outworld. 8. I don't understand what your trying to say here. 9. No it doesn't, the MK3 intro says that Jax frees Sonya and Kano and Kano uses the chance to escape arrest. Doesn't say he escaped back into Outworld, because he was already in Outworld when Jax freed him. However you are correct that this is actually a plot hole with my version of the events, since Kano doesn't use his chance to escape arrest. The fight with Kano is one part I could concede as non canon for the sake of continuity of the series. 10. Yeah, oddity that I wouldn't really call a plot hole. 11. I'm sorry, I don't follow how this is a plot hole from MKSM? In MKSM Baraka was killed by having 2 swords stuck in him and the souls in the room killed him off, not from Kung Lao's body slice fatality. You'll have to explain to me what you mean here. 12. Yeah, the thing about being hunted by the Lin Kuei doesn't make much sense. Though to be fair this is just one piece of dialogue that can easily be ignored as it doesn't actually show Sub-Zero being hunted. But there is nothing that says he wasn't sent by his clan to assassinate Shang Tsung and having the ulterior motive to find out what happened to his brother. 13. In MK2 it never specifies if she had direct control or not. And it certainly doesn't say she gained knowledge of her father after talking to an Earthrealm warrior. It says her motives come under question after speaking to an Earthrealm warrior. Speaking to an Earthrealm warrior can very well be describing Kitana talking to Liu Kang after he frees her from the spell. 14. What other part of the story does this contradict? Liu Kang is indeed credited for 4 Mortal Kombat victories on his tomb, but I fail to see how that means Kung Lao shouldn't be credited for 1 of the victories. Kung Lao may have lost in MK3, but I'm sure he was a lot stronger fighting alongside Liu Kang during MK2. 15. Yes Quan Chi had the original Amulet since MKSM. This actually makes a lot of sense to me. If you will remember at the conclusion of MKSM Sub-Zero manages to steal the fake amulet though and hand it over to Raiden. Now fast forward to MK2 right after Liu Kang and Kung Lao quell the Tarkatan attack, Shang Tsung engages Raiden in a fight and Shang Tsung evidently somehow manages to subdue Raiden. Once Raiden was subdued it wouldn't be unusual for Shao Kahn to strip the amulet from Raiden. After Kahn was defeated Quan Chi would have needed to get hold of the fake amulet in order to give Shinnok the fake amulet, because there is no way he would have given Shinnok the real one. Man. I hate having to do this. Can't people just accept things and accept that this is an alternate timeline to MK2's events? 1. But that's because Scorpion was re-convinced by Quan Chi to kill Sub-Zero after having been told that the younger one also had to do with killing his family and clan. His MK2 bio does state that he came back for Subby, but his ending is what says that he would be Sub-Zero's protector. Or at least not harm him. Though the part where he beats Kahn in his MK2 ending is not canon. What clarifies this canon is his UMK3 bio where it states the protector issue, the MK2 official comic, and earlier on in Scorpion's MK:DA Konquest training. 2. I know! But I'm saying that she did in MK:SM and NOT in MK2. Right at the ending of MK:SM. They treated Outworld like it was nothing more than a corrupted Edenia. Kitana actually states that she will rebuild Outworld as her true father intended. King Jerrod never controlled Outworld... 3. But Kung Lao's point in MK4 was like "Well I never got a chance to see Goro face-to-face because he was defeated in MK1. I was going to live a life of peace after Shao Kahn was defeated in MK3, but now that Goro has returned I need to track him down and settle this ancestor thing like I've always wanted." In MK:SM he was only like "Isn't Sub-Zero supposed to be handling this?" 4. The opening intro to MK2. Right when they plugged the arcade machine up. A picture of Shang Tsung begging Shao Kahn and everything. Even Shang Tsung's bio. And in the MK2 Kollector's Edition comic, it explains it even more thoroughly. But now you're saying that MK:SM made you not believe anything that it contradicted in MK2 which worries me. 5. I'd have to agree on this. But they should have explained it a lot better. The point was most likely to say "I serve Kahn himself!", but he did sort of serve Shang Tsung BY serving Kahn. 6. I never wanted Liu Kang and Kung Lao to kill her. Kitana should have. It would have been the best opportunity to do so with the secret boss fight above the Living Forest with Mileena. Kitana runs in, but instead it does the exact opposite of what you'd expect and has Mileena take Kitana hostage and escape to Outworld. Hence why Kitana was locked up. And the fact that characters died and came back by their oath to Kahn COULD be used. But Shang Tsung also dies in MK:SM. And if he came back that way again, then why does his MK:A bio also state that he never believed the oath to even be true? So that's a ponderer... 7. They got captured differently in MK:SM much differently than their originally stated ways. This whole statement I put up can be dropped considering your "MK:SM retcons all of MK2" choice of theory. 9. That's what I was trying to say. I didn't mean go to Outworld. The pic in the MK3 intro just shows him running into a portal which threw me off. LOL. But at least we both agree on this. 10. Yep. I just really think they should have exclusively been in the Wastelands above all else to clarify this. Would've been nice. 11. In MK:Gold, Baraka has giant staples holding him together. In a description of one of the pics with the MK:Gold Baraka render in MK:D's Krypt, it says that he got that way by Kung Lao's vertical hat slice. Not two swords and explodey. 12. You're right. It doesn't. But it was never clarified. His true mission should have been about "I need to have Shang Tsung's head on a platter!" though. I don't think Sub-Zero wanting to keep going after Scorpion to avenge his brother was ever said, even though it does make sense. They've ran into each other many times after that and have sort of had an unspoken truce. 13. I just think it would have meant that she just learned the truth though. They never said anything about a spell and it was always described as Kahn taking Kitana as his own personal daughter. Yet neither of us have any proof of what the MK2 bio clearly means. I just always look at the road where "if I never even played MK:SM" is. What usually pops into your head. 14. But he's not a Champion of Mortal Kombat. THE Champion is the guy who saved Earthrealm in the most recent Mortal Kombat fight. Liu Kang had these consecutively. I doubt they were shared. Kung Lao would have definitely been hinted as having "being a former Champion of Mortal Kombat" somewhere else down the road. My best guess is that it was for the sake of the newb player to shut up about "Hey! I was Kung Lao the whole time and he didn't become the MK Champion?!" That's just me though. 15. That makes total sense. But unexplained. I wouldn't think (personally) that Raiden would carry it around though. Wait...did Shinnok even have the fake amulet in MK4's events? I'm not even sure anymore. He was going to use it to escape the Netherrealm, but instead had to use Tanya to be sheltered into Edenia. That was an obvious non-display of amulet power. :/ Extra: How do you believe Kahn himself came back? In Shang Tsung's MK:A bio it also states that if Kahn died then so would all of his allies. Unless you wanna take the clone road... >_> -----signature----- The name's E. Evil_E. Just call me E_E. WARNING: 95% OF MY POSTS ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. You know how we have that little voice in our heads? Mine sounds like Deadpool. Want to be a part of the Error Macro Clan(EMC)? ^ Just PM me to join!
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TanyaWins Posts: 965 Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 7/5 9:32pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	Noz-King posted: TanyaWins posted: No it should not, because Jade would be dead Yeah and? And i like Jade, if you don't like her sorry and move on, she's still alive -----signature----- I'm losing logic and cruising deeper in the zone.
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Noz-King Posts: 762 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/5 9:33pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	TanyaWins posted: Noz-King posted: TanyaWins posted: No it should not, because Jade would be dead Yeah and? And i like Jade, if you don't like her sorry and move on, she's still alive I don't care if she's dead or alive. lol @ thinking the MK team listens to you. -----signature----- X.C.O.P.Y. X.D.N.L X.F.L.A.T.
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TanyaWins Posts: 965 Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 7/5 9:39pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	Noz-King posted: I don't care if she's dead or alive. lol @ thinking the MK team listens to you. Yet you bothered to reply I don't think the MK team listen to me, why do you even say that? i said i did not want MKSM to be canon and it's not, plain & simple. -----signature----- I'm losing logic and cruising deeper in the zone.
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Noz-King Posts: 762 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/5 9:41pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	TanyaWins posted: Noz-King posted: I don't care if she's dead or alive. lol @ thinking the MK team listens to you. Yet you bothered to reply I don't think the MK team listen to me, why do you even say that? i said i did not want MKSM to be canon and it's not, plain & simple. Obviously, I didn't say "I don't care what you say" which is why I replied. And you basically tried to imply that your favorite will be in Future games. -----signature----- X.C.O.P.Y. X.D.N.L X.F.L.A.T.
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TanyaWins Posts: 965 Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 7/5 9:48pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	No i did not i said i did not want her to die, but that does not mean that she will be returning... Many people from MK3 never died and weren't around until Armageddon... But it's alright it's OK, not everyone is gonna like the characters i love and it's good to see people rooting for all sides -----signature----- I'm losing logic and cruising deeper in the zone.
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subzero961 Posts: 1,524 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 7/9 1:52pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	evil_emporer posted: subzero961 posted: I'll go down your list one by one. 1. Scorpion protecting Sub-Zero was pretty much written out of the canon well before MK Shaolin Monks. Even Scorpion's MK2 bio directly contradicts it by stating he has returned from hell to once again stalk Sub-Zero. If that wasn't enough his MK4 ending shows him standing over Sub-Zero, implying he defeated him in battle. 2. Even during the normal MK2 storyline before MKSM Kitana never got control of Outworld after Shao Kahn's defeat as evident of Shao Kahn still being in control during the events of MK3. This isn't even really a plot hole. 3. I really have to disagree with one part here. One of the major themes of MKSM was about Kung Lao trying to enter the tournament then traveling to Outworld to restore honor to his ancestor. Most characters probably did still assume Goro was killed. Hell even after Johnny Cage finished him off again in Outworld, I'll bet even Liu Kang, Kung Lao and Johnny Cage assumed he was dead until his reappearance in MK4. 4. This isn't really a plot hole since we both aren't even on the same page as to the events. You are arguing for the original MK2 storyline while I take the position that MKSM retcons the MK2 storyline. Therefore from my point of view there is no plot hole, if there was some other place in the game where it says Shao Kahn directly gave Shang Tsung his youth back, then I'd have to agree there was a plot hole, but far as I'm aware it does not exist. 5. I found this to be more of Reptile displaying where his true allegiance lies. In his heart his master was always Shao Kahn and even if he was charged to be Shang Tsung's protector, he wouldn't feel he is Shang Tsung's servant in his heart. 6. Yeah I already explained this one, the oath thing pledged in Shang Tsung's MKA bio. As for Mileena, it wouldn't make sense for Liu Kang and Kung Lao to kill her since MK3 credits Kitana for killing her, and who is to say she didn't do that behind the scenes like Scorpion killing Sub-Zero. 7. Another case of us subscribing to 2 different versions of the events. In both our versions it still leads Liu Kang to go into Outworld. 8. I don't understand what your trying to say here. 9. No it doesn't, the MK3 intro says that Jax frees Sonya and Kano and Kano uses the chance to escape arrest. Doesn't say he escaped back into Outworld, because he was already in Outworld when Jax freed him. However you are correct that this is actually a plot hole with my version of the events, since Kano doesn't use his chance to escape arrest. The fight with Kano is one part I could concede as non canon for the sake of continuity of the series. 10. Yeah, oddity that I wouldn't really call a plot hole. 11. I'm sorry, I don't follow how this is a plot hole from MKSM? In MKSM Baraka was killed by having 2 swords stuck in him and the souls in the room killed him off, not from Kung Lao's body slice fatality. You'll have to explain to me what you mean here. 12. Yeah, the thing about being hunted by the Lin Kuei doesn't make much sense. Though to be fair this is just one piece of dialogue that can easily be ignored as it doesn't actually show Sub-Zero being hunted. But there is nothing that says he wasn't sent by his clan to assassinate Shang Tsung and having the ulterior motive to find out what happened to his brother. 13. In MK2 it never specifies if she had direct control or not. And it certainly doesn't say she gained knowledge of her father after talking to an Earthrealm warrior. It says her motives come under question after speaking to an Earthrealm warrior. Speaking to an Earthrealm warrior can very well be describing Kitana talking to Liu Kang after he frees her from the spell. 14. What other part of the story does this contradict? Liu Kang is indeed credited for 4 Mortal Kombat victories on his tomb, but I fail to see how that means Kung Lao shouldn't be credited for 1 of the victories. Kung Lao may have lost in MK3, but I'm sure he was a lot stronger fighting alongside Liu Kang during MK2. 15. Yes Quan Chi had the original Amulet since MKSM. This actually makes a lot of sense to me. If you will remember at the conclusion of MKSM Sub-Zero manages to steal the fake amulet though and hand it over to Raiden. Now fast forward to MK2 right after Liu Kang and Kung Lao quell the Tarkatan attack, Shang Tsung engages Raiden in a fight and Shang Tsung evidently somehow manages to subdue Raiden. Once Raiden was subdued it wouldn't be unusual for Shao Kahn to strip the amulet from Raiden. After Kahn was defeated Quan Chi would have needed to get hold of the fake amulet in order to give Shinnok the fake amulet, because there is no way he would have given Shinnok the real one. Man. I hate having to do this. Can't people just accept things and accept that this is an alternate timeline to MK2's events? 1. But that's because Scorpion was re-convinced by Quan Chi to kill Sub-Zero after having been told that the younger one also had to do with killing his family and clan. His MK2 bio does state that he came back for Subby, but his ending is what says that he would be Sub-Zero's protector. Or at least not harm him. Though the part where he beats Kahn in his MK2 ending is not canon. What clarifies this canon is his UMK3 bio where it states the protector issue, the MK2 official comic, and earlier on in Scorpion's MK:DA Konquest training. 2. I know! But I'm saying that she did in MK:SM and NOT in MK2. Right at the ending of MK:SM. They treated Outworld like it was nothing more than a corrupted Edenia. Kitana actually states that she will rebuild Outworld as her true father intended. King Jerrod never controlled Outworld... 3. But Kung Lao's point in MK4 was like "Well I never got a chance to see Goro face-to-face because he was defeated in MK1. I was going to live a life of peace after Shao Kahn was defeated in MK3, but now that Goro has returned I need to track him down and settle this ancestor thing like I've always wanted." In MK:SM he was only like "Isn't Sub-Zero supposed to be handling this?" 4. The opening intro to MK2. Right when they plugged the arcade machine up. A picture of Shang Tsung begging Shao Kahn and everything. Even Shang Tsung's bio. And in the MK2 Kollector's Edition comic, it explains it even more thoroughly. But now you're saying that MK:SM made you not believe anything that it contradicted in MK2 which worries me. 5. I'd have to agree on this. But they should have explained it a lot better. The point was most likely to say "I serve Kahn himself!", but he did sort of serve Shang Tsung BY serving Kahn. 6. I never wanted Liu Kang and Kung Lao to kill her. Kitana should have. It would have been the best opportunity to do so with the secret boss fight above the Living Forest with Mileena. Kitana runs in, but instead it does the exact opposite of what you'd expect and has Mileena take Kitana hostage and escape to Outworld. Hence why Kitana was locked up. And the fact that characters died and came back by their oath to Kahn COULD be used. But Shang Tsung also dies in MK:SM. And if he came back that way again, then why does his MK:A bio also state that he never believed the oath to even be true? So that's a ponderer... 7. They got captured differently in MK:SM much differently than their originally stated ways. This whole statement I put up can be dropped considering your "MK:SM retcons all of MK2" choice of theory. 9. That's what I was trying to say. I didn't mean go to Outworld. The pic in the MK3 intro just shows him running into a portal which threw me off. LOL. But at least we both agree on this. 10. Yep. I just really think they should have exclusively been in the Wastelands above all else to clarify this. Would've been nice. 11. In MK:Gold, Baraka has giant staples holding him together. In a description of one of the pics with the MK:Gold Baraka render in MK:D's Krypt, it says that he got that way by Kung Lao's vertical hat slice. Not two swords and explodey. 12. You're right. It doesn't. But it was never clarified. His true mission should have been about "I need to have Shang Tsung's head on a platter!" though. I don't think Sub-Zero wanting to keep going after Scorpion to avenge his brother was ever said, even though it does make sense. They've ran into each other many times after that and have sort of had an unspoken truce. 13. I just think it would have meant that she just learned the truth though. They never said anything about a spell and it was always described as Kahn taking Kitana as his own personal daughter. Yet neither of us have any proof of what the MK2 bio clearly means. I just always look at the road where "if I never even played MK:SM" is. What usually pops into your head. 14. But he's not a Champion of Mortal Kombat. THE Champion is the guy who saved Earthrealm in the most recent Mortal Kombat fight. Liu Kang had these consecutively. I doubt they were shared. Kung Lao would have definitely been hinted as having "being a former Champion of Mortal Kombat" somewhere else down the road. My best guess is that it was for the sake of the newb player to shut up about "Hey! I was Kung Lao the whole time and he didn't become the MK Champion?!" That's just me though. 15. That makes total sense. But unexplained. I wouldn't think (personally) that Raiden would carry it around though. Wait...did Shinnok even have the fake amulet in MK4's events? I'm not even sure anymore. He was going to use it to escape the Netherrealm, but instead had to use Tanya to be sheltered into Edenia. That was an obvious non-display of amulet power. :/ Extra: How do you believe Kahn himself came back? In Shang Tsung's MK:A bio it also states that if Kahn died then so would all of his allies. Unless you wanna take the clone road... >_> 1. Actually nowhere in the story does it suggest that Quan Chi re-convinced Scorpion that the younger Sub-Zero was also responsible for his and his family's murder. Scorpion's MK4 bio states he came back to serve Shinnok in exchange for a new chance at life, but he hides under ulterior motives, the ulterior motive I believe was to go after what he thought was still the original Sub-Zero. I don't recognize his MK2 and UMK3 ending given that endings are subject to not being part of the canon storyline. The comic book has been retconed in my opinion. And I just reviewed Scorpion's MK:DA Konquest training text and saw nothing to suggest he was Sub-Zero's protector, your going to have to provide the quote. 2. MK:SM never shows Kitana doing so, it just states that is what her plans are. Behind the scenes we know that Shao Kahn returns to power, again how is this a plot hole? 3. In MK4 Kung Lao never suggested "Well I never got a chance to see Goro face-to-face because he was defeated in MK1." He wanted to do battle with Goro after learning about his survival, but somewhere along the way, probably when he saw Goro reformed, decided he would rather make up with Goro. I thought it was common knowledge that "Isn't Sub-Zero supposed to be handling this?" was sarcasm. 4. Once again, in my opinion MK:SM retcons the original MK2 storyline. If it was restated that Shao Kahn restored Shang Tsung's youth in any other game other than MK2 then I would consider it as a plot hole. And no I won't automatically assume that anything that MK:SM is canon. Please remember your point about Kano's death that I conceded is wrong in MK:SM version. 5. Glad we agree on something. 6. No arguments that the fight in the Living Forest would have been a perfect opportunity to kill Mileena, but for some reason that's not what they choose to do, doesn't mean that Mileena survived MK2. I just want to highlight what is actually said in Shang Tsung's MKA bio "At the time I believed it to be merely another empty vow, yet here I am." Notice how it says "At the time". 7. Yep, no plot holes in my view. 9. Yay, 2 points we agree on. 11. While it's true that Baraka's original story was him being killed by Kung Lao as found in the MK Gold strategy guide, that bio isn't the official bio for him anymore. It's easy to change the text of the story, not so easy to come up with a new Baraka model on a deadline. 12. Well in MK:SM it doesn't really say he wanted to go after Scorpion, it says he wanted to find out what happened to his brother and he has some reason to believe his brother is alive somehow. I guess I just don't buy into them having an unspoken truce till the conclusion of MK4 since I don't buy into the MK2 or UMK3 ending. 13. I think the movie had more to do of what popped into your head than anything else. The concept of Kitana being Kahn's adopted daughter was non-existent in MK2 and only became part of the storyline in the game series after the MK movie. Granted in the original version in MK2 it doesn't say she was under a spell, but I don't take absence of information to mean something didn't happen. MK has been putting new pieces of information in the back story for awhile now. If you never played MK:DA you probably would have never concluded that Motaro revived Kano from dying either. 14. Liu Kang is certainly the official Mortal Kombat champion since there has only been 1 official Mortal Kombat tournament since Liu Kang became champion, but in MK:SM Kung Lao was his partner and helped him through Outworld and beat Shao Kahn, it was Kung Lao's victory too. But I really shouldn't even be arguing this, as I never believed he was a literal champion anyways, I always figured it to be a honorary title given to Kung Lao in recognition of his efforts. 15. There was a picture right after Raiden's introduction in MK4 that shows Shinnok with his amulet staff, and given that we know that Quan Chi did not give him the real amulet I think we can conclude he had the fake amulet. The Orb given to Queen Sindel was a portal to the Netherealm and we know one of the powers of the amulet is to open portals as demonstrated by Quan Chi opening a portal to the heavens in Outworld and opening up a portal to escape from Scorpion in the Netherealm. Extra: I don't believe Kahn ever died, it's pretty much confirmed now that Shao Kahn is a full fledged god and gods cannot be killed so easily, I figure he came back much in the same way Raiden did after sacrificing himself to stop Onaga. -----signature----- http://subzero961.angelcities.com/index.html www.myspace.com/the_master_chink
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evil_emporer Posts: 22,331 Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 7/9 5:35pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	subzero961 posted: 1. Actually nowhere in the story does it suggest that Quan Chi re-convinced Scorpion that the younger Sub-Zero was also responsible for his and his family's murder. Scorpion's MK4 bio states he came back to serve Shinnok in exchange for a new chance at life, but he hides under ulterior motives, the ulterior motive I believe was to go after what he thought was still the original Sub-Zero. I don't recognize his MK2 and UMK3 ending given that endings are subject to not being part of the canon storyline. The comic book has been retconed in my opinion. And I just reviewed Scorpion's MK:DA Konquest training text and saw nothing to suggest he was Sub-Zero's protector, your going to have to provide the quote. I just think that if something is referenced again in another game after the one where it first states something, then we can basically accept it as canon. And in Scorpion's canon MK4 ending, Quan Chi says "You have done my bidding well" like he had ordered/told Scorpion to kill the younger Sub-Zero. Wait a minute...What also just caught my eye when looking this up was Sub-Zero's Konquest (I meant Sub-Zero's...) saying "Scorpion has hunted Sub-Zero for years. He believed that Sub-Zero murdered his family and clan. Now he believes Quan Chi to be the true murderer, and will not harm Sub-Zero." For "years"...Maybe they did retcon it. subzero961 posted: 2. MK:SM never shows Kitana doing so, it just states that is what her plans are. Behind the scenes we know that Shao Kahn returns to power, again how is this a plot hole? I would think that if Kitana was able to kill Mileena after going through the portal then she wouldn't have been caught. I think their intention was actually for that to be when Kitana was thrown in prison thanks to Mileena. Johnny Cage's little thing about Kitana's clone at the end might also suggest the game developer's intention being for Mileena to still be alive. It is possible that they thought "Well we wont kill off all of the villains. We'll keep one. How about...Mileena? Ya. That sounds good. That way not EVERYONE dies." They still lacked the Mileena death thing in Kitana's MK3 bio though. Even with the MK:SM ending, Kitana is actually being tried for the death of Mileena in her UMK3 bio. Not after her return to controlling Outworld(which she never did in the real storyline). subzero961 posted: 3. In MK4 Kung Lao never suggested "Well I never got a chance to see Goro face-to-face because he was defeated in MK1." He wanted to do battle with Goro after learning about his survival, but somewhere along the way, probably when he saw Goro reformed, decided he would rather make up with Goro. I thought it was common knowledge that "Isn't Sub-Zero supposed to be handling this?" was sarcasm. I get the sarcasm part. But he still was never like "YOU KILLED MY ANCESTOR!!!" in MK:SM. And Johnny Cage never even fought Goro. The MK4 official comic has Goro even saying that he was hiding in the shadows SINCE MK1 because he was humiliated by his defeat. Not that he was hiding after being killed at the hands of Johnny Cage. subzero961 posted: 4. Once again, in my opinion MK:SM retcons the original MK2 storyline. If it was restated that Shao Kahn restored Shang Tsung's youth in any other game other than MK2 then I would consider it as a plot hole. And no I won't automatically assume that anything that MK:SM is canon. Please remember your point about Kano's death that I conceded is wrong in MK:SM version. That's only because you couldn't think of anything for Kano coming back to life after that happened. I don't think any other game really states that Shang Tsung came back to his youth from Shao Kahn other than MK2. But since that fact had nothing to do with his other storylines then I wouldn't think it would have had to. It was said twice in MK2 and even in MK2's comic. I mean, damn... subzero961 posted: 6. No arguments that the fight in the Living Forest would have been a perfect opportunity to kill Mileena, but for some reason that's not what they choose to do, doesn't mean that Mileena survived MK2. I just want to highlight what is actually said in Shang Tsung's MKA bio "At the time I believed it to be merely another empty vow, yet here I am." Notice how it says "At the time". So? Even though "At the time" meant whenever he made the vow, he still says after that "yet here I am" which shows that he just now believed it. Not that he believed it after MK2. He was even surprised of Shao Kahn's return and not simply coming back to life. subzero961 posted: 7. Yep, no plot holes in my view. They are to me though. Only because I believe the MK2 storyline continuity fully. subzero961 posted: 11. While it's true that Baraka's original story was him being killed by Kung Lao as found in the MK Gold strategy guide, that bio isn't the official bio for him anymore. It's easy to change the text of the story, not so easy to come up with a new Baraka model on a deadline. I'd like to believe the bio was true though. That's just me. MK:SM's battle with him might even support this in that he can survive with a blade it his head and his chest while still fighting. It'd be awesome if Baraka had some kind of prolonged healing factor to survive mortal wounds. I actually think I remember now that Baraka was given this death during MK:T and not MK2. His MK:T appearance was canon since it explained where he was the whole time during MK3 and UMK3. Out in other areas of Outworld. subzero961 posted: 12. Well in MK:SM it doesn't really say he wanted to go after Scorpion, it says he wanted to find out what happened to his brother and he has some reason to believe his brother is alive somehow. I guess I just don't buy into them having an unspoken truce till the conclusion of MK4 since I don't buy into the MK2 or UMK3 ending. I see what you're trying to say. However, Sub-Zero's deep and vengeful "He killed me brother..." towards Liu Kang and Kung Lao before going to the Netherrealm makes me think of it differently. And my earlier statement on Sub-Zero's MK:DA Konquest now makes me start to think otherwise. This conversation is making me realize more things. subzero961 posted: 13. I think the movie had more to do of what popped into your head than anything else. The concept of Kitana being Kahn's adopted daughter was non-existent in MK2 and only became part of the storyline in the game series after the MK movie. Granted in the original version in MK2 it doesn't say she was under a spell, but I don't take absence of information to mean something didn't happen. MK has been putting new pieces of information in the back story for awhile now. If you never played MK:DA you probably would have never concluded that Motaro revived Kano from dying either. What about MK:DA's Konquest again? I played it. And I know about the Motaro thing too. AND Sheeva getting killed by a sword thrust through the back. But damn. I just re-read Kitana and Mileena's MK2 bios. I never noticed before that she was never hinted as Shao Kahn's daughter. That's new to me. Thanks for pointing that out... I still always thought that she was never under Shao Kahn's control in order to be his adoptive daughter. The true purpose for being under control actually seemed sort of necessary. I'm not entirely sure, but I do believe that I remember something about Kitana being too young to remember her mother's death in some game. That's why she believed Kahn. I'll have to look that up though... [quote=subzero961]14. Liu Kang is certainly the official Mortal Kombat champion since there has only been 1 official Mortal Kombat tournament since Liu Kang became champion, but in MK:SM Kung Lao was his partner and helped him through Outworld and beat Shao Kahn, it was Kung Lao's victory too. But I really shouldn't even be arguing this, as I never believed he was a literal champion anyways, I always figured it to be a honorary title given to Kung Lao in recognition of his efforts.[/quote] I just felt that it would have made a lot more sense if Shao Kahn whopped Kung Lao in the face with his hammer and then Liu Kang finished him off by himself. Kung Lao working with Kang was lame. And I just feel better with Liu Kang winning it all by himself and earning those 4 consecutive tournament victory medals above his grave. [quote=subzero961]15. There was a picture right after Raiden's introduction in MK4 that shows Shinnok with his amulet staff, and given that we know that Quan Chi did not give him the real amulet I think we can conclude he had the fake amulet. The Orb given to Queen Sindel was a portal to the Netherealm and we know one of the powers of the amulet is to open portals as demonstrated by Quan Chi opening a portal to the heavens in Outworld and opening up a portal to escape from Scorpion in the Netherealm.[/quote] But Sindel had to accept the orb before it could open a portal. It didn't just automatically open up like the amulet can do. His MK4 bio also states that he was able to escape the Netherrealm with the help of Quan Chi. Not the amulet. And Tanya even had to be involved for it to work. I'm sure the pictures with him with it are only for drawings. Even Quan Chi's own bio says that he used HIS power to free Shinnok. Note that Shinnok's amulet staff is also a weapon in MK:A. However, I doubt that was his real amulet either. If he truly gets his amulet back then he would be all powerful and the war with Earthrealm could destroy the realm again. And we all know he is still plotting his ascension in MK:A. [quote=subzero961]Extra: I don't believe Kahn ever died, it's pretty much confirmed now that Shao Kahn is a full fledged god and gods cannot be killed so easily, I figure he came back much in the same way Raiden did after sacrificing himself to stop Onaga.[/quote] But it was a mystery how Raiden came back as he did to Fujin in his MK:A bio. Fujin stated that Raiden should have came back as a new thunder god with absolutely no memory of his past. Instead he came back evil with his memories. And if Shao Kahn could always come back, then why was his apparent "death" in MK:DA so dramatic? They had to make a clone story for him to come back. Not him coming back to life. Reading Shang Tsung's MK:A bio again, it also sounds a lot like Shang Tsung was very surprised Shao Kahn was still alive. If he knew about Shao Kahn coming back to life after his MK2 death then it should have seemed less surprising to him. Again: Happy ending dub. The reason for me always backing up MK2 is because MK:SM was supposed to be a REMAKE game of MK2. It was never promoted, and probably not meant to be, the game that retcons MK2. The real MK2 was part of the Mortal Kombat continuity and everybody followed it. MK3 did nothing to contradict MK2's events and went on with it. I'm sure everyone follows storyline by really playing through the official 1, 2, 3, 4, DA, D, A...Not necessarily the spin-offs. MK2 is the REAL "MK2". And it was what Ed Boon and John Tobias put together as their original information. I'll never look at MK:SM as anything else other than an alternate timeline and chain of events using MK2's plot. -----signature----- The name's E. Evil_E. Just call me E_E. WARNING: 95% OF MY POSTS ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. You know how we have that little voice in our heads? Mine sounds like Deadpool. Want to be a part of the Error Macro Clan(EMC)? ^ Just PM me to join!
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Dee_Trizzle Posts: 5,037 Registered: Jul '08	Date Posted: 7/9 5:40pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	It should not. From the plot I read, it would screw up the story more then it already is! -----signature----- Fav Characters:fujin sareena noob rain sonya. I wish the retarted were resmarted. Im a magician. A furious magician! I am a proud member of the emc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npP73QIApFE
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subzero961 Posts: 1,524 Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 7/9 9:47pm Subject: MKSM should be canon
	I just think that if something is referenced again in another game after the one where it first states something, then we can basically accept it as canon. And in Scorpion's canon MK4 ending, Quan Chi says "You have done my bidding well" like he had ordered/told Scorpion to kill the younger Sub-Zero. Wait a minute...What also just caught my eye when looking this up was Sub-Zero's Konquest (I meant Sub-Zero's...) saying "Scorpion has hunted Sub-Zero for years. He believed that Sub-Zero murdered his family and clan. Now he believes Quan Chi to be the true murderer, and will not harm Sub-Zero." For "years"...Maybe they did retcon it. I actually agree with this, that is why I believe that as long as the events in MK:SM doesn't contradict any other piece of the story it is canon. Yeah I was aware of that piece of text in Sub-Zero's konquest for awhile, I've got a plot guide I wrote for Mortal Kombat and used that in my argument why I think Scorpion never became Sub-Zero's protector. As for Quan Chi's quote, I thought he was referring to the original Sub-Zero, he said "To defeat my nemesis Sub-Zero I needed the power of a specter, you've done my bidding well but now I must return you to the Netherrealm." Unless I missed something I don't know why Quan Chi would consider the younger Sub-Zero his "nemesis". I would think that if Kitana was able to kill Mileena after going through the portal then she wouldn't have been caught. I think their intention was actually for that to be when Kitana was thrown in prison thanks to Mileena. Johnny Cage's little thing about Kitana's clone at the end might also suggest the game developer's intention being for Mileena to still be alive. It is possible that they thought "Well we wont kill off all of the villains. We'll keep one. How about...Mileena? Ya. That sounds good. That way not EVERYONE dies." They still lacked the Mileena death thing in Kitana's MK3 bio though. Even with the MK:SM ending, Kitana is actually being tried for the death of Mileena in her UMK3 bio. Not after her return to controlling Outworld(which she never did in the real storyline). Mileena wasn't necessarily killed right after going through the portal, she just had to be killed before MK3's events. I don't make much out of Johnny Cage's quote, I think it was supposed to be comic relief. I'm not sure how to respond to the 2nd part of this because it appears that we agree to the events. I'm not advocating that Kitana took control of Outworld, just that in MK:SM she planned on doing so and I agree that she is being tried for Mileena's murder, I never said I don't believe Mileena didn't die, I'm arguing Kitana killed Mileena behind the scenes. I get the sarcasm part. But he still was never like "YOU KILLED MY ANCESTOR!!!" in MK:SM. And Johnny Cage never even fought Goro. The MK4 official comic has Goro even saying that he was hiding in the shadows SINCE MK1 because he was humiliated by his defeat. Not that he was hiding after being killed at the hands of Johnny Cage. Goro was in hiding since MK1. I'm pretty sure staying in the wastelands is considered in hiding, the thing is Liu Kang and Kung Lao found him when they traveled to Outworld. There is still no evidence that anybody else knew of his survival. I'm sure he is much more pissed about losing his championship than Johnny Cage putting a foot through his stomach even though it was still Liu Kang who defeated him the 2nd time. That's only because you couldn't think of anything for Kano coming back to life after that happened. tongue I don't think any other game really states that Shang Tsung came back to his youth from Shao Kahn other than MK2. But since that fact had nothing to do with his other storylines then I wouldn't think it would have had to. It was said twice in MK2 and even in MK2's comic. I mean, damn... LOL, you couldn't be more wrong, I've always espoused going with the version that has no contradiction. I know to you that sounds hypocritical given my position of going with MK:SM events but once again I've got to say that in my opinion the purpose of MK:SM is to expand the MK2 storyline. And unless there are plot holes to other games then the differences between the original MK2 and MK:SM story we are meant to believe that MK:SM version is the new version of how it happened. Well we are just never going to agree then about how Shang Tsung regained his youth, I'm starting to sound like a broken record by how many times I've said MK:SM retcons the MK2 version's differences. So? Even though "At the time" meant whenever he made the vow, he still says after that "yet here I am" which shows that he just now believed it. Not that he believed it after MK2. He was even surprised of Shao Kahn's return and not simply coming back to life. If that's how you want to read it then fine, the "yet here I am" does not tell me he just now accepted it as true, to me it's meant as a statement that the oath is true. Of course he was surprised of Shao Kahn's return, he thought he and Quan Chi killed him. They are to me though. Only because I believe the MK2 storyline continuity fully. We'll never agree then, the only thing I'm going to say is that if you were on the defensive of making a case that the original MK2's story was the canon you would probably roll your eyes if I said explain how it can be true when Liu Kang's bio says he came back to the Shaolin Temple after the Tarkatans attack when MK:SM clearly shows him being there for the Tarkata attack. That's pretty much what your doing to me, we're never going to be on the same page on these issues because we both subscribe to 2 different versions of what is the canon. I'd like to believe the bio was true though. That's just me. MK:SM's battle with him might even support this in that he can survive with a blade it his head and his chest while still fighting. It'd be awesome if Baraka had some kind of prolonged healing factor to survive mortal wounds. I actually think I remember now that Baraka was given this death during MK:T and not MK2. His MK:T appearance was canon since it explained where he was the whole time during MK3 and UMK3. Out in other areas of Outworld. You can believe it if you want, I just think the bio in the game carries more weight than scrapped bios found only in the strategy guide. I'd also like to think Baraka not having those staples anymore being evidence that the story wasn't meant to be canon, but I'm willing to also accept that it doesn't suit Baraka. What about MK:DA's Konquest again? I played it. And I know about the Motaro thing too. AND Sheeva getting killed by a sword thrust through the back. But damn. I just re-read Kitana and Mileena's MK2 bios. I never noticed before that she was never hinted as Shao Kahn's daughter. That's new to me. Thanks for pointing that out... I still always thought that she was never under Shao Kahn's control in order to be his adoptive daughter. The true purpose for being under control actually seemed sort of necessary. I'm not entirely sure, but I do believe that I remember something about Kitana being too young to remember her mother's death in some game. That's why she believed Kahn. I'll have to look that up though... Well you said that you went by what popped into your head had you never played MK:SM to pretty much say that since MK2 didn't suggest it you don't believe Kitana was under a spell. I was just trying to say that new pieces of information is added to past stories all the time that we didn't know about at the time. That's what I was saying about Motaro saving Kano's life during MK3, having played MK3 the thought of Motaro saving Kano's life would have never entered someone's mind until you played MK:DA which states that he did. I just went through Kitana and Sindel's bios and ending and didn't see it suggested anywhere that Kitana was too young to remember her mother's death, though I suppose it could be in konquest mode, let me know if you find it. I just felt that it would have made a lot more sense if Shao Kahn whopped Kung Lao in the face with his hammer and then Liu Kang finished him off by himself. Kung Lao working with Kang was lame. And I just feel better with Liu Kang winning it all by himself and earning those 4 consecutive tournament victory medals above his grave. Yeah, but then as you said, the people who played as Kung Lao would have been WTF? I just beat him with Kung Lao and the ending shows Liu Kang winning. But Sindel had to accept the orb before it could open a portal. It didn't just automatically open up like the amulet can do. His MK4 bio also states that he was able to escape the Netherrealm with the help of Quan Chi. Not the amulet. And Tanya even had to be involved for it to work. I'm sure the pictures with him with it are only for drawings. Even Quan Chi's own bio says that he used HIS power to free Shinnok. Note that Shinnok's amulet staff is also a weapon in MK:A. However, I doubt that was his real amulet either. If he truly gets his amulet back then he would be all powerful and the war with Earthrealm could destroy the realm again. And we all know he is still plotting his ascension in MK:A. Well he did escape the Netherrealm with help from Quan Chi, it's supposedly the amulet that got Shinnok out of the Netherrealm. I just don't think the would have developed the story about Quan Chi going through a lots of effort to retrieve Shinnok's amulet to free him from the Netherrealm if he is able to free Shinnok easily with his own powers. Technically Shinnok and Quan Chi's bio's does not contradict the amulet freeing Shinnok as it would be Quan Chi who still assisted Shinnok to escape. I'm sure at the time of MK:A Shinnok realizes he does not have his amulet back otherwise he wouldn't be in the Netherrealm. The amulet on his staff has always been the fake one. But it was a mystery how Raiden came back as he did to Fujin in his MK:A bio. Fujin stated that Raiden should have came back as a new thunder god with absolutely no memory of his past. Instead he came back evil with his memories. And if Shao Kahn could always come back, then why was his apparent "death" in MK:DA so dramatic? They had to make a clone story for him to come back. Not him coming back to life. Reading Shang Tsung's MK:A bio again, it also sounds a lot like Shang Tsung was very surprised Shao Kahn was still alive. If he knew about Shao Kahn coming back to life after his MK2 death then it should have seemed less surprising Yes it is a mystery why Raiden came back dark instead of having no memories of his former life being neither "good or evil". But since he did come back with all his memories intact we know that it is possible in the MK universe and isn't a stretch to think that something similiar would happen to Shao Kahn because he is also a god. Well anytime there is a rumor that Shao Kahn is dead I'm pretty sure it will always be dramatic. But I don't know if it's so much as dramatic as it is that "the forces of light" had no way of confirming Kahn's death and didn't know what to make of the rumors. Of course he was surprised, he thought he killed Shao Kahn, I'm sure there are still ways for gods to be able to die, just not so easy to do. I mean you supposedly had Raiden and Shinnok trying to kill each other, you had Daegon thinking he called his father, Shinnok trying to kill a lot of gods on his "war of heaven". I don't think all these characters can be so naive to kill gods if they weren't... killable. -----signature----- http://subzero961.angelcities.com/index.html www.myspace.com/the_master_chink
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evil_emporer Posts: 22,331 Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 7/10 12:01am Subject: MKSM should be canon
	I actually agree with this, that is why I believe that as long as the events in MK:SM doesn't contradict any other piece of the story it is canon. Yeah I was aware of that piece of text in Sub-Zero's konquest for awhile, I've got a plot guide I wrote for Mortal Kombat and used that in my argument why I think Scorpion never became Sub-Zero's protector. As for Quan Chi's quote, I thought he was referring to the original Sub-Zero, he said "To defeat my nemesis Sub-Zero I needed the power of a specter, you've done my bidding well but now I must return you to the Netherrealm." Unless I missed something I don't know why Quan Chi would consider the younger Sub-Zero his "nemesis". I would have thought that too. And the elder one did die in MK1's events. But why would Quan Chi wait until the younger Sub-Zero was also killed before announcing his purpose to Scorpion? And it is almost common sense that he meant the younger Sub-Zero when he said to "defeat my nemesis", despite the younger not being his nemesis. It's just the way the situation is and right after Quan Chi thinks the younger one is finished. It might have even had to do with him being worried that he would use the knowledge given to him by his older brother to stop him and Shinnok. Mileena wasn't necessarily killed right after going through the portal, she just had to be killed before MK3's events. I don't make much out of Johnny Cage's quote, I think it was supposed to be comic relief. I'm not sure how to respond to the 2nd part of this because it appears that we agree to the events. I'm not advocating that Kitana took control of Outworld, just that in MK:SM she planned on doing so and I agree that she is being tried for Mileena's murder, I never said I don't believe Mileena didn't die, I'm arguing Kitana killed Mileena behind the scenes. I get that now. But how would you think that Mileena got killed behind the scenes then? When would have been the best opportunity? As for the Kitana part: What do you think happened after she took Shao Kahn's throne and took control of Outworld to rebuild it as her true father, King Jerrod, intended to rule it? (I know that was Edenia in the real storyline. But she contradicting that and was basically saying that Outworld was a corrupted Edenia and not a merged realm that should be separated. This is evident and unexplained.) Goro was in hiding since MK1. I'm pretty sure staying in the wastelands is considered in hiding, the thing is Liu Kang and Kung Lao found him when they traveled to Outworld. There is still no evidence that anybody else knew of his survival. I'm sure he is much more pissed about losing his championship than Johnny Cage putting a foot through his stomach even though it was still Liu Kang who defeated him the 2nd time. Liu Kang said to Sub-Zero that Kitana may have been in danger and that Mileena was going to seek help from Goro. He can't be in hiding if he's helping the people that work under the guy he's hiding from. He did not reemerge from the shadows until after Shao Kahn's defeat. If Mileena really did seek help from Goro, as Kitana also announced and knew was still alive, then I'm sure Kahn would have gotten word. The MK4 official comic also has Kitana surprised that Goro is alive. She is not aware that he lived after MK1 in there. Nothing mentions a Wastelands fight. The only thing that I can agree with from your statement is that the Wastelands is a good hiding place. LOL, you couldn't be more wrong, I've always espoused going with the version that has no contradiction. I know to you that sounds hypocritical given my position of going with MK:SM events but once again I've got to say that in my opinion the purpose of MK:SM is to expand the MK2 storyline. And unless there are plot holes to other games then the differences between the original MK2 and MK:SM story we are meant to believe that MK:SM version is the new version of how it happened. The way MK:SM ends, it just seems too strange for it to begin as it does in MK3/UMK3/MK:T. It sounds a lot more fitting to me as less of a contradiction that Shao Kahn trying to take over Earthrealm again in MK3's events after simply being beaten by the Earth warriors in MK2. That was his way of getting revenge and being humiliated and a last resort. Not a death and a revival. The plan took 10 years to accomplish with Sindel's soul. His death in MK2 might have cut that off. Do you really think that if there was an MK3 remake game that it would explain all of the deaths and the ending of MK2? I can only imagine it beginning with Shao Kahn trying to take over Earth again and no one truly being like "What?! Shao Kahn is still alive? I thought we killed him!" MK2 just explains everything better to me between MK1's ending to MK3's beginning and the rest of the games. MK:SM only leaves assumptions. Not facts like we are trying to guess now. Well we are just never going to agree then about how Shang Tsung regained his youth, I'm starting to sound like a broken record by how many times I've said MK:SM retcons the MK2 version's differences. If retconing is what you are truly trying to do, then why? What is it about MK:SM that you cannot accept that all things do not match up with the real storylines and that it is actually an alternate timeline of events for MK2? MK2 is MK2. When you ask a veteran MK player a question about what happened after MK1 and before MK3, they will tell you all about the original MK2. That is what a huge chunk of the MK fan base still believe to be true and reference to those bios and endings all of the time. If that's how you want to read it then fine, the "yet here I am" does not tell me he just now accepted it as true, to me it's meant as a statement that the oath is true. Of course he was surprised of Shao Kahn's return, he thought he and Quan Chi killed him. My point is that if he died in MK2 and came back because of the vow before MK3, he would also be aware of it when he died again after Raiden's blast. If he knew the fact was true in MK:DA's intro then I'm sure he would not have killed Shao Kahn because he was the one guy who could always revive you if you died. And killing that guy would mean you don't get anymore second chances. And if Shao Kahn died in MK2 and came back to life for MK3, then Shao Kahn being alive again should not have been so hard for him to realize when he saw him again in his MK:A bio. He would have immediately thought about how Shao Kahn would come back to life again as he did before MK3 after he and Quan Chi killed him. We'll never agree then, the only thing I'm going to say is that if you were on the defensive of making a case that the original MK2's story was the canon you would probably roll your eyes if I said explain how it can be true when Liu Kang's bio says he came back to the Shaolin Temple after the Tarkatans attack when MK:SM clearly shows him being there for the Tarkata attack. That's pretty much what your doing to me, we're never going to be on the same page on these issues because we both subscribe to 2 different versions of what is the canon. You can believe it if you want, I just think the bio in the game carries more weight than scrapped bios found only in the strategy guide. I'd also like to think Baraka not having those staples anymore being evidence that the story wasn't meant to be canon, but I'm willing to also accept that it doesn't suit Baraka. What I'm saying doesn't contradict MK2 anymore or has to do with MK:SM contradicting MK2. It's about how in MK:SM Baraka could live with a blade in his head and a blade in his chest. AND how I just realized that Baraka might have suffered Kung Lao's vertical slice during Mortal Kombat: Trilogy's end and NOT MK2. Him being alive in his Trilogy bio was canon as far as we know and explains his absence. With the blade part in mind, perhaps he has some kind of healing factor to live through mortal wounds and so the staples were only holding his halves together until he healed back together years later when MK:D came up. There were many years between MK4 and MK:DA. Even more with MK4 and MK:D. Just a cool thing to BELIEVE that I thought would interest you. Well you said that you went by what popped into your head had you never played MK:SM to pretty much say that since MK2 didn't suggest it you don't believe Kitana was under a spell. I was just trying to say that new pieces of information is added to past stories all the time that we didn't know about at the time. That's what I was saying about Motaro saving Kano's life during MK3, having played MK3 the thought of Motaro saving Kano's life would have never entered someone's mind until you played MK:DA which states that he did. Very well. She could have been under a spell by Kahn. I will never believe the fact though until I hear it in a game that carries the continuity. So we'll have to permanently disagree on this unless otherwise and one of us can find the fact in a non-MK:SM or MK/DC game. I do not derive facts from games I see as non-canon. I just went through Kitana and Sindel's bios and ending and didn't see it suggested anywhere that Kitana was too young to remember her mother's death, though I suppose it could be in konquest mode, let me know if you find it. I never said their bios. I just said somewhere. But I really thought I heard this. I might be mistaken. I was just somehow convinced that this was how it was. Perhaps the fact that Shao Kahn first began turned his attention to Edenia MILLIONS of years ago and how Kitana is only THOUSANDS of years old. I can get you the explanation on why I think it was millions of years ago too. :P Yeah, but then as you said, the people who played as Kung Lao would have been WTF? I just beat him with Kung Lao and the ending shows Liu Kang winning. So you're saying that we should accept that as canon because it was something that had to be done for the player who played Kung Lao to feel accomplished? Well he did escape the Netherrealm with help from Quan Chi, it's supposedly the amulet that got Shinnok out of the Netherrealm. I just don't think the would have developed the story about Quan Chi going through a lots of effort to retrieve Shinnok's amulet to free him from the Netherrealm if he is able to free Shinnok easily with his own powers. Technically Shinnok and Quan Chi's bio's does not contradict the amulet freeing Shinnok as it would be Quan Chi who still assisted Shinnok to escape. I'm sure at the time of MK:A Shinnok realizes he does not have his amulet back otherwise he wouldn't be in the Netherrealm. The amulet on his staff has always been the fake one. But if Shinnok thought he had his amulet, he would have figured it out sooner when he realized he couldn't escape the Netherrealm with it's powers. He created the amulet and knows it better than anybody else does. I'm not saying that the amulet wasn't used though. Maybe it even took a long time to even accomplish getting Shinnok out of the Netherrealm and it was one of those risky things. But Quan Chi also could not have released Shinnok with it. I was just now going to use that and have Quan Chi say "Well...um...I all of the sudden have a power source that can get you out of here!" However, if memory serves me right then Quan Chi never knew how to even use the amulet's power until he studied the ruins that talked about it during his journeys in the Netherrealm. These instructions are what is burned on his body as tattoos. So if Shinnok did not have his amulet back and attain ultimate god-like power...and Quan Chi couldn't use it right at the time...then now I'm confused as to how Shinnok escaped other than that spontaneous orb thingy. Where the hell did that even come from? If Quan Chi made it then how is it he obtained that ability and not practice it sooner? Yes it is a mystery why Raiden came back dark instead of having no memories of his former life being neither "good or evil". But since he did come back with all his memories intact we know that it is possible in the MK universe and isn't a stretch to think that something similiar would happen to Shao Kahn because he is also a god. Nvm. Read my comment 2 down from this. Well anytime there is a rumor that Shao Kahn is dead I'm pretty sure it will always be dramatic. But I don't know if it's so much as dramatic as it is that "the forces of light" had no way of confirming Kahn's death and didn't know what to make of the rumors. MK2 = Shao Kahn dies. "Yay! Outworld is free from tyranny!" ~ Like the MK:SM ending. MK3 = Shao Kahn comes back and there is no word of surprise. Outworld is chaotic and still always ruled by him. Nobody is cheering about being freed anymore. MK:DA = Shao Kahn dies. "What?! Shao Kahn died?! This is big stuff! I guess this is permanent even though he's died before!" It takes a clone story for him to even come back. Of course he was surprised, he thought he killed Shao Kahn, I'm sure there are still ways for gods to be able to die, just not so easy to do. I mean you supposedly had Raiden and Shinnok trying to kill each other, you had Daegon thinking he called his father, Shinnok trying to kill a lot of gods on his "war of heaven". I don't think all these characters can be so naive to kill gods if they weren't... killable. Maybe it's only special gods that get to come back. I don't damn know. But they are killable. ...On second thought, Fujin may have been referencing to Raiden coming back as a new god only because he released his godly essence and not because he was simply killed. I'll go take a look. ^ IF that is true when I look it up (which you should do the same) then that completely kills all of the Shao Kahn coming back to life thing since Shao Kahn didn't do a massive explosion to release any godly essence like Raiden did. -----signature----- The name's E. Evil_E. Just call me E_E. WARNING: 95% OF MY POSTS ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. You know how we have that little voice in our heads? Mine sounds like Deadpool. Want to be a part of the Error Macro Clan(EMC)? ^ Just PM me to join!
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